How do we fix the Sorcerer?

Li Shenron

Legend
Sorcery Points:The key difference between sorcerer and wizard is the use of this unique mana system... and, just like the Monk (esp. Wo4E) and its Ki system, WoTC dropped the ball on it. The Sorcerer just doesn't get enough sorcery points to play with, and they don't regenerate anywhere near quickly enough - the freaking wizard has better stamina then that, courtesy of its Arcane Recovery feature. Add in the inefficiencies of converting spell slots into sorcery points (especially given as the only advantage sorcerers have on wizards vis a vis spells is a bonus cantrip), and this is just a hot mess.
Solution: Make Sorcery Points either recover on a Short Rest instead of a long rest, or have each Origin outfitted with a way to regain sorcerery points more readily - for example, Wild Mages gain some whenever they roll a 1 or a 20 with a spell, whilst Dragon Sorcerers regain some when they take resisted damage. Also, increase the sorcery points at lower levels.

Spell List: Let's be honest; does anyone like the hard limit on spells known that sorcerers labor under? Or the lack of Origin-based bonus spells, something the Cleric and Warlock have?
Solution: Expand the Spells Known limits, or just remove that mechanic entirely. Add Origin-based Bonus Spells to the class.

Thematic Spells: I made this a seperate problem, because it's mostly a Dragon Sorcerer issue at the moment. Everybody knows that unless you play a Fire Dragon Sorcerer, you're basically gimped, because Fire is by far the most over-represented elemental damage type in the sorcerer's spell list.
Solution: Add more spells for the other elements. Heck, bring back the "rainbow damage" spells that sorcerers specialized in during 4th edition.

If I were seriously in charge to "fixing" the Sorcerer (or whatever), I would always do so without changing what is in the PHB. And that means: add new stuff that can help compensate for the lack of something.

So your solution for lack of thematic spells is a no-brainer: just add new spells to the game.

As for the other two, the solution is new feats:

SPELL SCHOLAR:
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell from spell slots
When you gain this feat, choose four spells from a class spell list you already have access to. You learn those spells and can cast them using your spell slots. If you use a spellbook, you can scribe these spells in it for free.

RELENTLESS SPELLCASTER:
Prerequisite: The ability to use spell points
Your spell points increase by an amount equal to your level when you gain this feat. Whenever you gain a level thereafter, your spell points increase by an additional spell point.

(Note: a feat that changes the recharge time of spell points from long rest to short rest would feel too much like a feat tax to me)
 

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Gadget

Adventurer
Go back to the flavor text (emphasis mine)...

[SECTION]RAW MAGIC
Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces. One can’t study sorcery as one learns a language (1), any more than one can learn to live a legendary life. No one chooses sorcery; the power chooses the sorcerer (2).

Magic is a part of every sorcerer, suffusing body, mind, and spirit with a latent power that waits to be tapped. Some sorcerers wield magic that springs from an ancient bloodline infused with the magic of dragons. Others carry a raw, uncontrolled magic within them, a chaotic storm that manifests in unexpected ways. The appearance of sorcerous powers is wildly unpredictable. Some draconic bloodlines produce exactly one sorcerer in every generation, but in other lines of descent every individual is a sorcerer. Most of the time, the talents of sorcery appear as apparent flukes. Some sorcerers can’t name the origin of their power, while others trace it to strange events in their own lives. The touch of a demon, the blessing of a dryad at a baby’s birth, or a taste of the water from a mysterious spring might spark the gift of sorcery. So too might the gift of a deity of magic, exposure to the elemental forces of the Inner Planes or the maddening chaos of Limbo, or a glimpse into the inner workings of reality. (3)

Sorcerers have no use for the spellbooks and ancient tomes of magic lore that wizards rely on, nor do they rely on a patron to grant their spells as warlocks do. By learning to harness and channel their own inborn magic, they can discover new and staggering ways to unleash that power. (4)

UNEXPLAINED POWERS
Sorcerers are rare in the world, and it’s unusual to find a sorcerer who is not involved in the adventuring life in some way. People with magical power seething in their veins soon discover that the power doesn’t like to stay quiet. A sorcerer’s magic wants to be wielded, and it has a tendency to spill out in unpredictable ways if it isn’t called on. (5)

Sorcerers often have obscure or quixotic motivations driving them to adventure. Some seek a greater understanding of the magical force that infuses them, or the answer to the mystery of its origin. Others hope to find a way to get rid of it, or to unleash its full potential. Whatever their goals, sorcerers are every bit asuseful to an adventuring party as wizards, making up for a comparative lack of breadth in their magical knowledge with enormous flexibility in using the spells they know. (6)[/SECTION]

(1) suggests that sorcerers don't use the "language" of magic (spells) as other spellcasters do. For example, PHB p. 201 says "In casting a spell, a character carefully plucks at the invisible strands of raw magic suffusing the world, pins them in place in a particular pattern, sets them vibrating in a specific way, and then releases them to unleash the desired effect — in most cases, all in the span of seconds." But sorcery isn't pre-defined, it isn't a pattern language, it isn't set in a specific way. Yet the PHB sorcerer relies on spells readily recognizable to wizards. Easy on players – perhaps (more on that below) – but ultimately not matching the flavor text.

(2) suggests that magic, at least the kind sorcerers are tapped into has a will or semi-sentience of its own. What if sorcery were like riding/taming a stallion, using mechanics akin to a battle of wills with a sentient magic item? What does it mean for magic to choose you; do you always detect as magic, do others always recognize you as a spellcaster, or what? Are there unwilling sorcerers? Some of this is worldbuilding, but it could easily translate into mechanics that actually follow up on the promise of this flavor. Again, the mechanics fail.

(3) draws attention to the fact that "most sorcerers are not bloodline based at all! They're instead defined by strange events and involve significant mystery. If a sorcerer's origin is a mystery, should the player be pinning that down OOC? Isn't that a bit jarring narratively? Maybe what matters more than a sorcerer's past is their present ("how do you respond to magic choosing you? embrace it? see it as a curse?") or their future ("what do you seek to accomplish with your gift? pass it on? return it to its source? find the truth of your power's origin?").

(4) makes me wonder: Does Metamagic qualify as "discovering new and staggering ways to unleash that power"? Definitely Twinned Spell is powerful, but I'd argue there's no real sense of discovery on the player's side. Metamagic becomes rote eventually... "Oh, it's longer-reaching. Oh, there's 2 lightning bolts. Oh, you cast it subtly." Something is missing. Instead imagine a sorcerer mixing gust of wind and hypnotic pattern to blow a scintillating cloud into the castle window - a spell combo! Or imagine a sorcerer empowering a fire bolt so it twists around corners or appears as a roaring dragon's head of flame! Or even consider a sorcerer circumventing the usual spell system entirely to do things no bard, warlock, or wizard could dream of – like dropping a gravity well among enemies, slamming them together like those bombs from Guardians of the Galaxy!

(5) Magic wants to be wielded. Unused magic spills out in unpredictable ways. It seethes in a sorcerer's veins. What a powerful statement! If this flavor text were actually reflected in the design, what would it look like? Maybe instead of spell slots, a sorcerer builds up wild surge charges, so the more magic/spells cast, the greater risk of spending a round not casting a spell? Maybe losing concentration is particularly dangerous for a sorcerer? Maybe during a long rest, unused spell slots increase the chance of "strangeness" afflicting the sorcerer? So many opportunities to interpret this powerful flavor text, and yet sorcerer's design misses all of them.

(6) "Narrow focus, but enormous flexibility." Sorcerers aren't swiss army knives, with a utility spell for every occasion like a wizard. A sorcerer is a hatchet with uses limited only by the player's creativity (or perhaps necessity). A sorcerer has a tight theme but can adapt magic within that theme to a wide array of effects; a sorcerer might only know "water magic" but he knows *every* way to use water! And he can change it up on the fly! Instead, the PHB gives us the same old spell system without significant variation. Ice storm is ice storm is ice storm; if you want to use it to freeze a reservoir, well, you're firmly in DM judgment call territory just like any other spellcaster.

The Sorcerer flavor text is describing a class concept that does not actually appear in the PHB, but it's a class concept I recognize from fiction (e.g. A Wizard of Earthsea) & one I'd love to see actually implemented in D&D.

You make some very valid and accurate points that I can't really dispute or disagree on. Sure, I could quibble on some of them, but for me the real kicker is this: it seems to demand a new and wholly different magic subsystem (ala the Mystic and psonics, at the least) for one class in the PHB. I just don't see them doing that in a PHB. Especially when the battle cry was to have it 'feel like' D&D (i.e. be familiar in feel and mechanics to current players while still being accessible to new ones). I remember being mildly surprised that they just made the Ranger a partial caster and left it at that. Then I realized that this was a good way to leverage the existing spell subsystem to add abilities to a class.

At the end of the day, D&D has always done a poor job of giving even a reasonable facsimile of most fantasy characters or archetypes, other than self-referential ones. You really have to squint and turn your head the right way to see the flavor you want in many instances.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
You make some very valid and accurate points that I can't really dispute or disagree on. Sure, I could quibble on some of them, but for me the real kicker is this: it seems to demand a new and wholly different magic subsystem (ala the Mystic and psonics, at the least) for one class in the PHB. I just don't see them doing that in a PHB. Especially when the battle cry was to have it 'feel like' D&D (i.e. be familiar in feel and mechanics to current players while still being accessible to new ones). I remember being mildly surprised that they just made the Ranger a partial caster and left it at that. Then I realized that this was a good way to leverage the existing spell subsystem to add abilities to a class.

At the end of the day, D&D has always done a poor job of giving even a reasonable facsimile of most fantasy characters or archetypes, other than self-referential ones. You really have to squint and turn your head the right way to see the flavor you want in many instances.

I agree it's a real design challenge! Create a class recognizable as a sorcerer to players of 3rd & 4th edition, yet is distinct enough to merit its own place alongside other arcane spellcasters that don't prepare spells, and btw can it evoke "fantasy novel" magic besides Vancian magic without creating a 30-page subsystem just for one class?

It's a tall order, and the kind of thing that would take a design team with good playtesting feedback & the time to "do it right."

Conceptually, at least, I can see one approach that could be viable: Cantrips Plus.

The idea – which I've dubbed Cantrips Plus – is that cantrips carry the brunt of this hypothetical revised sorcerer's magic. Maybe a sorcerer can learn a few actual spells, but these would probably be via subclass features, not part of the base class.

Each cantrip entry would be much like in the PHB (though there'd be maybe 6-10 more), but would include a section on "Sorcerous Upgrades" for ways a sorcerer can spend Sorcery Points improving/changing the cantrip. These would be in addition to a more universal list like Metamagic. And class/sub-class features could add additional improvements/changes to various cantrips.

However, whenever using a cantrip in an improved/changed way, the sorcerer risks some kind of wild surge which might create an unexpected effect or "short circuit" their ability to use that cantrip until taking a rest.

For other magical effects not encapsulated in the cantrips, they'd be class features...possibly akin to Eldritch Invocations but taking inspiration from some of the 4e sorcerer's stuff. So a Storm sorcerer might gain a flight speed at a high enough level, rather than casting fly; this has the interesting effect of making certain powers iconic to a sorcerer unable to be dispelled – that makes an interesting narrative niche for a sorcerer who is so innately magical that dispel magic can't "extinguish" the magic in their blood.

It's rough form, but I think it would meet all points of the design challenge.
 

Another idea would be to drop spellcasting altogether (or at least pretty much). The sorcerer channels sorcerous energy into one of five subclasses:

1) Your body (totally not the monk sorcerer)
2) Something (like a weapon) you are holding or wearing (totally not the paladin or artificer sorcerer)
3) A blast of energy (totally not the warlock sorcerer)
4) A destructive aura (totally not the storm barbarian sorcerer) [sorcerous enhancements, see below, could allow you to shape the aura into an armor]
5) Your mind (totally not the mystic sorcerer).

Speaking of the warlock, the sorcerer gets sorcerous enhancements (totally not invocations), but unlike the warlock and invocations, the sorcerer gets access to all of them (okay a few will be limited by level and by subclass) rather than "pick one enhancement at level 3", but how many/which ones he/she can use are limited by how many sorcery points he/she has (based somewhat off of PF2's resonance). Some of the enhancements could allow the sorcerer to cast a spell (without having to worry about pesky spell slots) a number of times per long rest (increases as you level up).
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I agree it's a real design challenge! Create a class recognizable as a sorcerer to players of 3rd & 4th edition, yet is distinct enough to merit its own place alongside other arcane spellcasters that don't prepare spells, and btw can it evoke "fantasy novel" magic besides Vancian magic without creating a 30-page subsystem just for one class?
One thing about how magic works outside of the Dying Earth in the broader SF/Fantasy genre - it's usually either glossed over & subordinate to the plot, or it's simpler & makes more sense than D&D's casting sub-systems typically do. OK, occasionally both.

And 3e & 4e Sorcerers, while similar in concept, were worlds apart in what their mechanical implementations implied about magic & their relationships to it.

In 4e, every arcane caster got his own list of spells, with virtually no overlap. This created an impression that magic was, yes, varied, but also personal - for everyone. No wizard was going to learn every spell in existence, for instance, not even close, not even theoretically.

In 3e, the sorcerer & wizard shared virtually the same list (but for a couple of spells that affected preparation, so meant nothing to the sorcerer, mechanically). Any wizard might learn any wizard/sorcerer spell at any time, and any Sorcerer might develop that same spell independently. That makes magic universal, not personal - especially for the wizard. And, while the sorcerer's limited, infrequently changed spells known makes his magic personal, in one sense, it's still the same magic - the same spells, the same components, the same effects, etc...

Giving the sorcerer exclusive metamagic was actually an inspired solution. It made the sorcerer's magic more intuitive and unique, because he could mess around with it and vary it from the norm. They could even have left them identical spell lists, I suppose.

So it's not so much recognizable that looks to me like the problem. The sorcerer is an innate mage using magic that heavily overlaps with that of the learned wizard, as he was in 3e, and a user of personal magic of the Dragon and Wild varieties as he was in 4e. It's recognizable, it just doesn't deliver on the feel or experience - or, of course, mechanics, inevitably. And that's as much a function of the other caster designs and the spell lists as the Sorcerer design.
 

Unwise

Adventurer
Why is it that 4e fans didn't keep on playing 4e, like us 3rd edition fans kept on playing 3rd edition?

It is surprisingly hard to do. 4e was very reliant on the online character builder and the online monster compendium. It is down right painful to try and make a character with out. Making balanced encounters as a DM is also really time consuming without the right tools. Add to that the difficulty already inherent in making 4e combat maps and it really becomes a hassle. 4e was never DM friendly and the lack of tools just pushes it over the edge into being not worth it.

My group are very combat and tactics focused so insist on sticking with 4e and it is a real pain in the back for me.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Double the sorcerors metamagic points as it's a shared resource that can either replenish spell slots or fuel metamagic and it's current PHB iteration gives you just enough to recover as many slots as our friend the wizard can recover.

Give him all the meta magic options. No need to gate these through level.

Allow you to spend a steep premium to use multiple metamagic options on a single spell.

I'd say that probably would fix the base sorcerer class.
 

hejtmane

Explorer
I have no clue because I never played 3 or 4 so that is an irrelevant starting point for me; I have no issues with the class now and they have performed in my games.

Back in my 1e days thit was Magic users or Illusionist.

I like how they play now and they work great currently in 5e maybe it is my perspective I mean 1e had a lot less classes and sub classes until Unearth arcana and before that it was all just plain D&D were we had cleric, fighter, thief and magic users.
 

If only Morrus had a dollar for every "let's fix the sorcerer" thread...he wouldn't need Patreon.

I am pretty sure WotC is not going to give out any more sorcery points, but Mike Mearls seems good with the notion of adding level 1-2 origin spells.

For myself, I think changing the name "mystic" to "sorcerer" and "intelligence" to "charisma" in the mystic write up is probably the easiest and best solution.
Aren't mystics op as heck?
 

If only Morrus had a dollar for every "let's fix the sorcerer" thread...he wouldn't need Patreon.

I am pretty sure WotC is not going to give out any more sorcery points, but Mike Mearls seems good with the notion of adding level 1-2 origin spells.

For myself, I think changing the name "mystic" to "sorcerer" and "intelligence" to "charisma" in the mystic write up is probably the easiest and best solution.
aren't mystics like, super broken though? like, pretty much everyone I know says they're super over powered
 

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