Healing Surges

[Falstaff]

Hello,

What happens to a character that has zero healing surges when he is hit by an attack that causes him to lose a healing surge?

Thanks.

 

[brehobit]

Hello,

What happens to a character that has zero healing surges when he is hit by an attack that causes him to lose a healing surge?

Thanks.

RAW: it doesn't say.
I'd say nothing. I'd have no real problem with stealing a HS from the player after the next long rest, but that's a bit rude...

 

[Mengu]

RAW doesn't say but the logic behind the mechanic for losing a healing surge (say as part of a skill challenge failure) is that the character has time to rest and recover HP's lost from a fall, a trap, extreme heat or cold, or some other cause. If a player is out of healing surges, I would have no problem converting that "lose healing surge" mechanic to a "lose quarter of your hit points" mechanic. This will sufficiently show the character has been taxed.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Involuntary loss of a surge? Nothing. This came up recently, when we fought a room full of wights as our very last encounter of a long 'day.' We'd bypassed the room after our second encounter that day - if we hadn't, it'd've been devestating, forcing us to take an extra long rest, and giving the complex ample time to discover us. As it was, it was still quite dangerous, but we were able to rest afterwards, and it was the last combat of the adventure, as well, so only 'cleanup' followed.

A character with no surges can't spend a surge he doesn't have, though, and shouldn't be allowed step up to 'loose' a surge he doesn't have in a skill challenge or other situation where the party gets to choose which of thier party looses a surge. I'm sure there might be other situations where loosing a surge you don't have should have consequences. For instance, in an endurance challenge, if you run out of surges, you're probably exhausted, and have failed the challenge - but, if the DM let you try one more time, the 'loss of a surge' might then indicate comlete exhuastion and inability to continue.

 

[Rafe]

You could rule that, if you're supposed to lose a healing surge, lose the healing surge value in hp.

 

[Falstaff]

You could rule that, if you're supposed to lose a healing surge, lose the healing surge value in hp.

I think this is what I'll go with.

Thanks everyone. Happy gaming!

 

[cmbarona]

Just to pitch in my 2 cp:

I think that, by the time your healing surges are depleted, you've probably been punished enough. If you don't have a surge to lose, don't lose it. If they're truly getting into the game, they should be worried enough by the time they reach that point.

As for losing the surge value in hp, though, be careful about punishing Dragonborn for having high Constitution. You might keep it a static value (5 per tier?) so that ANY characters with higher Con aren't punished for being more durable, either.

 

[Falstaff]

Just to pitch in my 2 cp:

I think that, by the time your healing surges are depleted, you've probably been punished enough. If you don't have a surge to lose, don't lose it. If they're truly getting into the game, they should be worried enough by the time they reach that point.

As for losing the surge value in hp, though, be careful about punishing Dragonborn for having high Constitution. You might keep it a static value (5 per tier?) so that ANY characters with higher Con aren't punished for being more durable, either.

Whoa! Good points. Thanks.

 

[elecgraystone]

Personally, I'd say nothing happens if you lose a surge but don't have any left. The lose of healing surges is making the person less able to heal themselves NOT directly damaging them. If you are looking to kill people off though, taking off surge value hp is a quick and easy way to let people restart characters.

 

[Bladesong]

I personally think there should be some effect, or there is technically no threat.
If they still existed you could use fatigued then exhausted...what is in now...weakened?
They could just start their day after a long rest with 1 fewer surge for every one they would have lost.