D&D 5E Great Weapon Master

[Coredump]

But its also somewhat self-mitigating.

Early and mid levels, the +10 damage is a big boost, but the -5 to hit is a pretty big check. Yes, at higher levels, the -5 to hit becomes less of an issue, but when you start talking +3 weapon, girdle of giant str, etc The +10 damage isn't as big of a boost (relatively speaking)

Lvl 16 GWF GWM 25 Str +3 Greatsword Bless (+2) Total to hit of +15 against the AC22 dragon
Ave dmg: 13.25
Ave dmg *with* -5/+10: 13.167

Yes, you do *less* damage using the -5/+10 from GWM

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Does this house rule have any immediately noticeable problems / issues?

Power Attack - the aspect of Great Weapon Master which greatly increases the damage dealt - is the game mechanic which is supposed to balance the +2 AC that the longsword-user gets from using a shield.

In older editions, you couldn't always count on getting much of a bonus from Strength, and there weren't many other ways to increase your weapon damage. It was enough that two-handed swords had higher base damage.

In 3.5, there were plenty of ways to increase damage, so the difference between d8 and 2d6 wasn't enough to offset the bonus from a shield. They increased the damage disparity by letting two-handers gain more from Power Attack.

In 5E, it's virtually guaranteed that anyone involved with this discussion will have Strength 20 within short order, and the difference between (d8+5) and (2d6+5) isn't enough to offset the benefit of a shield. That the two-hander has the option of greatly increasing damage sometimes is enough to keep things more interesting and more balanced.

The obvious question that you should ask yourself is, if you went forward with your proposed rule modification, how often would you expect someone to actually choose the greatsword over the longsword+shield combo?

 

[Celtavian]

But its also somewhat self-mitigating.

Early and mid levels, the +10 damage is a big boost, but the -5 to hit is a pretty big check. Yes, at higher levels, the -5 to hit becomes less of an issue, but when you start talking +3 weapon, girdle of giant str, etc The +10 damage isn't as big of a boost (relatively speaking)

Lvl 16 GWF GWM 25 Str +3 Greatsword Bless (+2) Total to hit of +15 against the AC22 dragon
Ave dmg: 13.25
Ave dmg *with* -5/+10: 13.167

Yes, you do *less* damage using the -5/+10 from GWM

You should be more accurate. You do less damage against AC 22. Not all the time. AC 22 is a rare AC to say the least.

My experience is the fighter in our group uses it all the time save versus the Legendary, end game creatures. It is a big damage boost. So just analyzing it for AC 22 isn't telling the whole story. Even with a 25 str and +3 greatsword doing 22 damage, +10 damage is a 45% raw damage increase that boosts damage the lower the AC gets. That is a huge damage boost. If you could boost each of your hits by 45%, wouldn't you do it?

In our group the fighter uses it nearly every encounter when ACs are in the 14 to 16 range, a quite common AC. He's only level 10. Great Weapon Master is a big deal. It allows the martials to spike damage more than any other class.

Does your analysis take into account how it interacts with abilities like Feinting Attack or Oath of Enmity? Those abilities martials use on the Legendary Creatures with higher ACs to use Great Weapon Master effectively. So martials use Great Weapon Master easily on trash with lower ACs and use it on Legendary Creatures with special abilities. Math analysis doesn't do how easy it is to use justice. Then there is even the occasional use of Inspiration or Bardic Inspiration that can boost hit chances as well.

 

[sidonunspa]

I'm thinking of house ruling this to include all strength based melee weapons. Mainly because there just aren't any feats for your regular Longsword-wielding guy.

Does this house rule have any immediately noticeable problems / issues?

Grimstaff,

Shield Mastery..... bonus action to knock someone down and give your self other melee characters advantage to hit....

advantage = +5 or so.

Give the Sword and Board character a feat for -5/+10 damage..........

They take both feats,

Bonus Action to Shove, knock target to the floor
Attack at Advantage, suffer -5 for +10 damage...

see where I'm going with this?

its bad idea

it takes away from the GW Fightger.... a sword and board can take shield mastery and dueling fighting style for some extra damage boost.... and if they take sentinel it gives them a lot of control in the field (use shove for attacks of opportunity, push them down, reduce their speed to 0 and now they can't get back up for a round.) that's where sword and board fighters shine...

one is a damage monster, the other a control monster

 

[PnPgamer]

Except you cannot attack with advantage against the enemy on the same turn you knock enemy down, because you need to spent your attack action first to trigger the availability of bonus action knockdown.

 

[Paraxis]

Except you cannot attack with advantage against the enemy on the same turn you knock enemy down, because you need to spent your attack action first to trigger the availability of bonus action knockdown.

You can take your bonus action attack with the shield before you make your attacks. The game designers have commented about how you can take the order of your actions in any way you want as long as you do the triggering action on your turn. For example a character can make a bonus action off hand attack, then move 10', then make the attacks from using the attack action, then move some more.

 

[PnPgamer]

Oh, so it is sort of a promise?

 

[Paraxis]

[MENTION=6786484]PnPgamer[/MENTION] it exists the second you decide to take the attack action on your round, you don't have to make the attacks yet just commit to taking the action.

Here is a link to sage advice talking about it if you don't believe me. http://www.sageadvice.eu/?s=shield+master

 

[PnPgamer]

Yeah i read your post wrong at first. I edited my previous away to a simple question.

 

[sidonunspa]

Oh, so it is sort of a promise?

No, it 'locks' you into an attack action...

For example you can't bash and dash, or bash and cast a spell...

Think of it as 'part' of the attack action...not something that happens because of the attack action.