S
Sunseeker
Guest
Holy. I don't even have words for the sort of audacity to do that at a table.
D&D 5E Dragonborn inter-species breeding?
- Thread starter Sezarious
- Start date
Holy. I don't even have words for the sort of audacity to do that at a table.
MechaPilot
Explorer
I don't think there is one.
And there may not be a word for that situation either. I was surrounded by new people (it was my first game with them, and it's not the best way to entice the new girl to come back), sweating, trembling slightly, and glancing humiliatedly around the table for help while the DM continued to describe the scene as if we were in an improv troup and he were feeding me lines to jump off from.
Bacon Bits
Legend
The reason Half-Orcs were removed from 2e is precisely because this sort of racial background is creepy, disturbing, and discourages people (both women and men) from playing the game. You'll note the 5e PHB doesn't even mention one word about unwilling conceptions. While it certainly makes sense in a realistic background sense, it's really not appropriate for a social game like D&D without careful consideration and discussion with all the players. Rape isn't a fun or enjoyable topic, and -- given how morals and ethics of in-game universes tend to inherit from reality -- this characters actions would be seen by all other races as extremely evil. If this is the race's background and culture, it basically precludes them from being a PC race. They're suddenly monstrous creatures just like Troglodytes are. They would be seen as predators to be destroyed, not peers, and certainly not allies.
The closest thing in the game now is the Succubus/Incubus. They're fiends -- a literal embodiment of evil -- and even they don't rape. The description is written such that the creatures don't get what they want (the victim's soul) if the subject is unwilling or charmed. It's also changed them to preferring to reproduce with each other instead of with a humanoid.
If this player wants to fantasize about this, I'm sure there's all kinds of literature about it out there somewhere. The game table really isn't the place unless you're at a very special gaming table. Rape is not a theme to be taken lightly.
The closest thing in the game now is the Succubus/Incubus. They're fiends -- a literal embodiment of evil -- and even they don't rape. The description is written such that the creatures don't get what they want (the victim's soul) if the subject is unwilling or charmed. It's also changed them to preferring to reproduce with each other instead of with a humanoid.
If this player wants to fantasize about this, I'm sure there's all kinds of literature about it out there somewhere. The game table really isn't the place unless you're at a very special gaming table. Rape is not a theme to be taken lightly.
The Grassy Gnoll
Explorer
One of my pcs is a dragonborn with the same bond. He's looking past any female of another species entirely and desperately seeking a female dragonborn of any colour. In our game they're a but entwivish and hard to find. But forcing himself on others? Red card. Luckily my player isn't the sort to consider that.
If this guy is a 12-year-old boy, then perhaps you're the first one to have The Talk with him about the difference between treating humanoids as *people* (if it can use language and fire, then it's a person, though all too often an evil person) and treating them as objects. Or perhaps you're the first one to have The Talk with him about how a captive cannot truly consent, because whatever they say is under duress. Or perhaps you're the first one to have The Talk with him that rape is generally considered an evil act, sometimes more or less as evil as murder. Well, D&D can be the venue where gaps in people's education happen to get addressed.
If he's older than, say, 17, then don't let him near children, and don't accept anything he hands you to drink.
A dragonborn's mating-relevant anatomy only becomes functional in the presence of another dragonborn who's giving the proper pheremonal signals. For them, where there is no mutual desire, there's not even the option of mating. (Source: I made that up, just now.) But that's a side issue.
Mechapilot, I hope no one ever treats you that way again. It sounds like the DM didn't consider whether you were having fun or feeling unhappy. He could have observed your body language, which as you describe it sounds unwilling. He could have asked "hey, can we co-create this scene?", and waited for your answer. He could have asked "hey, just checking, rape isn't a difficult topic for anyone at this table, is it?." That's a DM failure and a basic human decency failure... since rape IS a difficult topic for many people, including (but not limited to) survivors. Someone else at the table might have been experiencing nasty flashbacks, gritting their teeth and silently waiting for it to be over, and it sounds like he would not have noticed.
I hope he has, since then, acquired a clue or two.
If he's older than, say, 17, then don't let him near children, and don't accept anything he hands you to drink.
A dragonborn's mating-relevant anatomy only becomes functional in the presence of another dragonborn who's giving the proper pheremonal signals. For them, where there is no mutual desire, there's not even the option of mating. (Source: I made that up, just now.) But that's a side issue.
Mechapilot, I hope no one ever treats you that way again. It sounds like the DM didn't consider whether you were having fun or feeling unhappy. He could have observed your body language, which as you describe it sounds unwilling. He could have asked "hey, can we co-create this scene?", and waited for your answer. He could have asked "hey, just checking, rape isn't a difficult topic for anyone at this table, is it?." That's a DM failure and a basic human decency failure... since rape IS a difficult topic for many people, including (but not limited to) survivors. Someone else at the table might have been experiencing nasty flashbacks, gritting their teeth and silently waiting for it to be over, and it sounds like he would not have noticed.
I hope he has, since then, acquired a clue or two.
Kikuras
First Post
I find it interesting that no one has mentioned the obvious solution. If I were a player in this group, the first hint of such inappropriate behavior would result in public outcry and disgust, which should be echoed by the rest of the party. The first attempt to act on this strange and disturbing desire would result in the immediate attack of his character by my character, which should be joined by the remainder of the party.
In the case he tries to do these thing covertly, and away from the party, that is when terrible thing happen to the character, attacked by overwhelming odds, or a rock falls on him and kills him. That sort of thing.
Of course I do think it's important to have a proper chat with the fellow, explain that it's a disturbing notion, and such penalties (as I described) are likely to be commonplace... or simply asked to leave all together.
In the case he tries to do these thing covertly, and away from the party, that is when terrible thing happen to the character, attacked by overwhelming odds, or a rock falls on him and kills him. That sort of thing.
Of course I do think it's important to have a proper chat with the fellow, explain that it's a disturbing notion, and such penalties (as I described) are likely to be commonplace... or simply asked to leave all together.
In response to everyone's replies, I appreciate the input. Mechapilot, what happened to you sounded appalling, the DM and players in that group sounded perverted. Further I'll add this guy is about 20 and I think that just being clear with him about acceptable and unacceptable behaviour should be fine, but it's good to have some obscure fluff that would embarrass him less. I don't know if he has fully thought about his actions. Then again, maybe having a talk with him with no softening of the blow is the right stance to take with him.
I play a chaotic good Halfling barbarian in this game too so as mentioned by kikuras, my character could certainly take offence and beat the heck out of his character.
I play a chaotic good Halfling barbarian in this game too so as mentioned by kikuras, my character could certainly take offence and beat the heck out of his character.
GameOgre
Adventurer
It's all fun and games until the DM tells you all three eggs in your body pouch are fertilized and you need to find somewhere safe to be durring the next six moths as you will be helpless and immobile.
I try and never say no to what a player wants his character to do. That said, I don't think the player would be happy with the result.
I once had a pc murder a farmer and his wife, when their son the Paladin head of a entire order of knights got involved, justice was swift.
I try and never say no to what a player wants his character to do. That said, I don't think the player would be happy with the result.
I once had a pc murder a farmer and his wife, when their son the Paladin head of a entire order of knights got involved, justice was swift.
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EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Yeeeeah...I've known exactly two people who could pull off the "Chaotic Neutral Rogue." The first was really playing someone like Han Solo with a playful streak and a love of shinies that could occasionally overcome her preference to avoid letting anyone suffer. The second is seriously dedicated to her craft (she'll steal from EVERYONE, doesn't matter how good/helpful/needy they are), and not at all averse to killing people who get in her way, but at the same time she has a soft spot for children and hard-luck cases and deeply respects the devotion of my Paladin.
All the other CN Rogues I've ever heard of were either comedy relief characters not meant to be seriously believed; truly Chaotic Evil people simply masquerading as Neutral so the DM wouldn't be constantly suspicious; or outright trolls whose only goal seemed to be "figure out the way to
things up the most for everyone else, do it, then giggle as they deal with the fallout."In my perhaps-not-so-humble opinion, CN is the worst alignment in the game--even worse than the stereotypical Lawful Stupid so-called "LG" Paladin archetype. At least the Lawful Stupid Moral Policeman generally has (what he thinks is) the party's best interests in mind. The Chaotic Stupid "CN" Rogue archetype almost always thinks of nobody's interests but her own...and even that isn't always the case.
As for the OP, two simple answers.
1. Seriously, address this rape thing. People should not have a casual attitude about rape, especially when they're making up fantasies about it. (If you've ever heard of the Penny Arcade "Dickwolves" strip, that is where its dark humor lies: it's not, at all, that rape is funny; it's that there is black comedy in the idea that MMO players are so desensitized to the situations they face that they can simply walk away from people CLEARLY suffering horribly because "hey man I have my quota." Rape is used because it is actually serious, and thus the PC's response is thrown into stark relief.)
2. Personally, I love Dragonborn and most reptilian races, so I'm actually OK on a theoretical level with the idea that you can have "half-dragonborn" characters. Kobolds in particular (if you take them to be lizardy rather than doglike) make sense to me; I expect a "Koborn" to be kinda sorta like a mul from Dark Sun, being halfway between the parents' characteristics. (Working from their 4e stats, since I don't know the Kobold's 5e stats, they'd definitely have a +Cha, and probably +Con or +Dex (trading away the strength of the Dragonborn for some of the Kobold's agility). In other words, if your player is able to address this more maturely, perhaps in a sort of "Miroku"-esque way (that is, comically trying to "woo" every woman he meets, while--as a player--looking for that one woman who truly captures his heart), then I don't see any reason why that woman couldn't be a kobold or a lizard(wo)man or a half-dragon or whatever. It's not like you'd even need to actually worry about statting up their children any time soon!
As sort of an aside: I think there should be more reptilian races; for example, we can make rough everyman/gruff/small 'trinities' of races e.g. Human/Dwarf/Halfing is the "mundane" group, Elf/Goliath/Gnome is the "fey" group, and Half-Orc/Minotaur/Goblin could be another ('barbarian' maybe?). But, despite having a super clear everyman=Dragonborn and small=kobold, I've yet to see a third reptilian race that could fit between. It could be really neat! Especially if it's a gruff race that flips things around a bit, what with both Dragonborn and Kobold being more brute-force/physically inclined.
