It really isn't.
Or rather, for the ones that it is, it isn't a major issue because they needed the buff.
-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
D&D 5E Great Weapon Mastery - once more into the breach! (with math)
- Thread starter Ancalagon
- Start date
Or rather, for the ones that it is, it isn't a major issue because they needed the buff.
TWF is a trap in 5e can be surpassed by duelist quite easily so basically you are better off with a shield and 1 handed weapon then you are ever using twf even with fighter buff you are easily surpassed after 5th level and get lapped at higher levels
If you want your Fighter to be a whirling dervish Elf who wields two scimitar's (a la Prince of Persia), Two-Weapon Fighting is by far and away the best choice.
CapnZapp
Legend
I believe he's referring to some homebrew buff to TWF:ing, not to GWM.
Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
CapnZapp
Legend
Yes, but if you want your whirling dervish Elf to be actually good, you're sold out of luck, since dual-wielding can't keep up.
With one exception: hand crossbow "dual-wielding". (It isn't really dual-wielding since it neither conforms to the two-weapon fighting rules, nor actually uses two weapons. But in the general sense of "using your bonus attack to make one extra attack" it is very similar to how TWF works. The reason it is good where TWF:ing isn't, is of course because you can use it with a -5/+10 feat)
Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
Odd that....I mean he seems to do plenty of damage, I mean a hell of a lot, and the group is happy to have him there soaking up damage and being cool dancing and flipping through enemies. Seems perfectly good to me.....
Also he was raised as an elf, so never learned the crossbow (he thinks it's terribly crude), and the big swords cramped his style....
Helldritch
Hero
The only problem with white room calculation is that it does not factor in the actions of the enemies.
The boosted GWM and SS can be disabled. When the enemy can boosts itself in AC, these feat now become "almost" useless. When you need an 18+ to hit because you took the penalty to hit to increase your dmg, you'll see that your dmg output is severly lessened.
Both feats are intended to shine against low ac, mob like opponents. The monsters that are the most hated at my table are the Hobgoblins and Orogs. Why? High AC mobs to which I sometimes add a shield. Trying to hit an orog with an AC 20 with a -5 penalty to hit can be really hard. Again I'll say that these two feats are unbalancing as you want them to be.
Most of the problem with these feats can be solved with a bit of work in encounter building. 5ed is a bit light/easy compared to 1ed but it is so easy to compensate for that without going overboard.
Just take these two example: Gladiator. Remove the Studded leather and give him a half plate. He goes from AC 16 to AC 19 and could go up to AC 22 for one attack. Or the knight? Remove the great sword and give him long sword and shield. AC 20 and 22 vs one attack. Now our 5th level GWM will hesitate to use his feat against such a foe. Meanwhile, in the back, two evil priest are dispeling our GWM and the other is silencing the party's casters...
If you build your encounters with one kind of monster or tactics of course there is a chance that the feats will become OP. More so if you don't do the 4 to 6 encounters per day. When you don't know if the enemy(ies) in front of you will be the last of the day, you don't necessarily want to use up all your resource in that fight alone.
Yes I do see these feat shines a lot in some fight. Yes in the right conditions the damage output is impressive. But I have some players asking if the feat is really that impressive when they are against high AC opponents... An ASI would have helped a lot more. Once the 20 strength cap is reached, the feats are a lot less costly not to use.
I think that it all depends on play style...
The boosted GWM and SS can be disabled. When the enemy can boosts itself in AC, these feat now become "almost" useless. When you need an 18+ to hit because you took the penalty to hit to increase your dmg, you'll see that your dmg output is severly lessened.
Both feats are intended to shine against low ac, mob like opponents. The monsters that are the most hated at my table are the Hobgoblins and Orogs. Why? High AC mobs to which I sometimes add a shield. Trying to hit an orog with an AC 20 with a -5 penalty to hit can be really hard. Again I'll say that these two feats are unbalancing as you want them to be.
Most of the problem with these feats can be solved with a bit of work in encounter building. 5ed is a bit light/easy compared to 1ed but it is so easy to compensate for that without going overboard.
Just take these two example: Gladiator. Remove the Studded leather and give him a half plate. He goes from AC 16 to AC 19 and could go up to AC 22 for one attack. Or the knight? Remove the great sword and give him long sword and shield. AC 20 and 22 vs one attack. Now our 5th level GWM will hesitate to use his feat against such a foe. Meanwhile, in the back, two evil priest are dispeling our GWM and the other is silencing the party's casters...
If you build your encounters with one kind of monster or tactics of course there is a chance that the feats will become OP. More so if you don't do the 4 to 6 encounters per day. When you don't know if the enemy(ies) in front of you will be the last of the day, you don't necessarily want to use up all your resource in that fight alone.
Yes I do see these feat shines a lot in some fight. Yes in the right conditions the damage output is impressive. But I have some players asking if the feat is really that impressive when they are against high AC opponents... An ASI would have helped a lot more. Once the 20 strength cap is reached, the feats are a lot less costly not to use.
I think that it all depends on play style...
Last edited:
Ilbranteloth
Explorer
Exactly.
I'm certainly interested in the math behind this. From a game standpoint I haven't run into any issues and don't really think it's a problem. But from a design standpoint, what is "reasonable" and how does it compare to other stats and abilities?
I don't think there's a consensus on what is reasonable, but with more information on how other feats work would give some insight.
I have a dual-wielder that regularly out-damages a GWF.
Not so with GWM. The bonus action attack is still there and it's roughly as much extra damage with the bonus action attack as with the -5/+10 portion. If the armor is high enough you don't use the -5/+10 part. Your damage can't possibly be lower with GWM as without it. The minimum boost should be 10% or so.
