Initiative Variant (Speed Factor) - actual use

[Galendril]

I've used a version of these rules in 2nd edition and I enjoyed them. The players though felt at times the DM (i.e. me) meta-gamed and adjusted my monsters actions based on what I heard the players were doing.

 

[toucanbuzz]

I've used a version of these rules in 2nd edition and I enjoyed them. The players though felt at times the DM (i.e. me) meta-gamed and adjusted my monsters actions based on what I heard the players were doing.

In AD&D, the DM is supposed to adjudicate the monster actions before the players declared, and I adhere to that formula. It does give the players a slight advantage in that they have an idea, before they declare, what the monsters will do. If you're facing enemy casters, you've already decided the enemy wizard is casting Fireball, and there's no reason you couldn't tell players "you turn the corner into a band of cultists. They begin grabbing for weapons, and it appears a robed one in the back is reaching for a component pouch."

However, as written, there's no requirement you tell the players anything until it happens.

With declaration of actions, it's somewhat clear you're doing a particular act, such as attacking with a weapon, opening a backpack, etc. absent some compelling reason such as being Hidden. On my monster turn, they're free to react to these observations, and if the hobgoblins, which are intelligent foes, focus fire on the party's Sorcerer, that's just tactics, not meta-gaming.

 

[Ath'kethin]

You don't have a problem with the initiative "double-dipping" of Dex characters?

What I mean by that is Dex grants a bonus to initiative. Then, using speed modifiers, you'll have Dex-builds and Dex-based classes mostly using faster weapons (light, finesse, etc). So, using the Dex modifier with speed modifiers gives an extra initiative bonus to Dex characters.

In my games Initiative bonuses come from Intelligence, not Dex. It both helps keep INT relevant and prevents situations such as you describe.

 

[Melkor]

The only thing I have found hard to reconcile with this system is that movement isn't really accounted for.

So a character with a sword standing right next to an enemy (who gets a total of 12 for initiative), gets to attack at the same time as a character who has to move across the room to attack the same enemy with his sword (and also rolls a 12).

I've tried to figure out ways to rationalize it without assigning some modifier for movement, but haven't come up with anything yet.

 

[jgsugden]

In the past I've found speed factors in a round by round combat to be a half solution. It tends to work best when removing the rigid structure of the round by round combat and replacing it with swifter 'segmented' combat, where a dagger wielder will get more attacks in than an equally skilled greatsword user.

 

[AmerginLiath]

I like that this gives the feeling that everything is happening in the same 6 seconds. Sometimes the traditional way of handling actions makes it feel like everyone has their own consecutive 6 second block of time.

I have a question: Does getting knocked unconscious work like this?:

A character goes down (unconscious) in round 1. He generally won't be restored to consciousness in the round that he drops because the party members don't know that he will drop when they declare their actions prior to the round starting.

The downed character will not get an action on the next round when he could potentially be brought back because he is unconscious.

If he is brought back to consciousness in round 2, then he can declare actions for round 3.

Other than another character having a readied healing action, downed characters will lose a round or possibly two depending on initiative rolls for falling unconscious. I like this better than same round wack-a-mole healing.

Is this how you play it?

Hypothetically, if a party didn’t want an unconscious character to lose as many rounds, couldn’t said player technically still declare an action at 0HP, since it wouldn’t go off were the character still unconscious when initiative came around? Not how I play it myself, but a consistent way to do it under these rules if the party wanted someone to have a chance to get back in the action more quickly.

 

[snickersnax]

Hypothetically, if a party didn’t want an unconscious character to lose as many rounds, couldn’t said player technically still declare an action at 0HP, since it wouldn’t go off were the character still unconscious when initiative came around? Not how I play it myself, but a consistent way to do it under these rules if the party wanted someone to have a chance to get back in the action more quickly.

Having an unconscious character lose an extra round is actually a nice solution to what I and many others consider a problem (whack-a-mole). For this reason, if I played this rule I probably wouldn't allow an unconscious character to declare an action for a round that they start unconscious.

 

[seadaily]

The idea of calling out ranges really changes how I look at this alternate rule. I definitely like the sound of how it changes up the flow of combat as well. The only thing I don't really like with how its presented in the DMG is that basically all two-handed weapons are double penalized since only one of them is not also heavy and that only loading ranged weapons are penalized. Although a funny side effect of the -4 that heavy, two-handed weapons get is that it makes using versatile weapons two-handed really attractive. Unless I'm mistaken that using a two-handed doesn't incur the penalty, only if it has the two-handed property?

If I end up using this variant, I think I'll drop Dex to initiative and just use the action's adjustment. I'd also combine the heavy and two-handed melee categories together like the light and finesse are as well as adding a heavy or two-handed category for ranged weapons.

 

[mAcular]

I really find this idea interesting. How do you handle declaring monster actions? Do you declare them after the players, out loud? Do you internally decide them while the players are deciding, then stick to them? Do you just decide them on the spot when it's the ghoul's turn?

 

[Ath'kethin]

I really find this idea interesting. How do you handle declaring monster actions? Do you declare them after the players, out loud? Do you internally decide them while the players are deciding, then stick to them? Do you just decide them on the spot when it's the ghoul's turn?

I totally cheat. It makes everybody's life easier, chiefly mine.