D&D 5E Martial Levels (control extra attack gain for better MCing)

[Garthanos]

I had considered allowing something like this which conceives martial levels to allow unifying maneuvers.

Martial Superiority - Making Combat Superiority a standard martial class feature by

Martial Superiority - Making Combat Superiority a standard martial class feature by - Created with GM Binder.

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But instead of for merging access to maneuvers rather to make multi-classing better for Extra Attack acquisition.
For instance something story appropriate like your character is a Fighter who becomes Paladin before hitting level 5 the multiclassing seems designed to punish rather heavily but by tracking EA levels they merge more seemlessly.

What kinds of issues might there be?

 

[houser2112]

It will encourage more multiclassing. As the rules are now, dipping out of Fighter is discouraged because you seriously delay the acquisition of Extra Attack.

I like it, because I actually like free multiclassing (and fractional BAB/Save optional rule that your suggestion brings to mind) from 3.x; a lot of other people on this board and the 5E designers in particular, do not. Giving ASIs as class features instead of character features, the way they explicitly disallow Extra Attack, Spellcasting, and Unarmored Defense to stack would point to this.

 

[Garthanos]

It will encourage more multiclassing. As the rules are now, dipping out of Fighter is discouraged because you seriously delay the acquisition of Extra Attack.

Indeed intended to encourage most intra-martial multiclassing any class that provides extra attacks should gain some EAL.

 

[NotAYakk]

Just let you skip the EA5 level in class features when MCing.

Fighter's EA11/20 is the excpeption. Every other martial gets a EA5 and then other DPS boost at 11.

So if you are fighter 5 first, paladin 5 gives the pal6 class feature.

It is a bit of assymetry, but it prevents the "don't level past 4 when MCing martials" problem.

You can even move EA5 up; but bump class feature when you do. So fighter 2/paladin 3 gets an EA, but is missing pal3 or fighter2 features.

By 11 this isn't a problem. 6-10 isn't as significantly weaker than 11 as 1-4 is than 5. But delaying EA5 is big, as is a dead level from 2nd EA5.

 

[Xeviat]

This is why I think the system should have been designed with scaling dice on weapon attacks, just like cantrips.

Classes could have gained different abilities at 5th level. Extra Attack is already WAY bigger than one would ever allow for a feat.

The rogue has great damage scaling because of the way Sneak Attack grows.

The Fighter could have gained a version of their old Weapon Mastery abilities. Paladins could have gained their radiant damage earlier. Rangers could have had it tied to a favored enemy/mark mechanic.

As it is now, Opportunity Attacks scale poorly because of multiattack, and multiclassing doesn't work properly with extra attack classes when this edition went a long way to making multiclassing work for spellcasters.

 

[Horwath]

One option:

add levels in martials for gaining 1st Extra attack. When both classes have Extra attack, give Extra ASI instead of it.

I.E: 5ht level paladin / 5th level ranger would have normal Extra attack feature and 3 ASIs. one for each 4th level of the classes and one extra instead of Extra attack from the class that got 2nd to the 5th level.

As for fighters "Extra"Extra attack features; you could keep it exclusive or add option that other martial classes give half their levels to "effective fighter level".
I.E. fighter 8/paladin6 would count as fighter 11 for fighters Extra attack features.

 

[Garthanos]

Thanks for the feedback and food for thought everyone.

 

[Garthanos]

This is why I think the system should have been designed with scaling dice on weapon attacks, just like cantrips.

Classes could have gained different abilities at 5th level. Extra Attack is already WAY bigger than one would ever allow for a feat.

The rogue has great damage scaling because of the way Sneak Attack grows.

The Fighter could have gained a version of their old Weapon Mastery abilities. Paladins could have gained their radiant damage earlier. Rangers could have had it tied to a favored enemy/mark mechanic.

As it is now, Opportunity Attacks scale poorly because of multiattack, and multiclassing doesn't work properly with extra attack classes when this edition went a long way to making multiclassing work for spellcasters.

yeh I wondered about multi-attacking that erratic progression.. I am thinking of allowing number of opportunity attacks to scale as per extra attacks... but that doesn't address what you are talking about does it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I played with the idea of a martial progression for Extra Attack when MCing similar to casters and spell slot progression, but ultimately decided against the idea.

For most dips, you are only delaying Extra Attack 1-2 levels, and the benefits you get from the other classes usually makes up for it (at least in the short term that you don't have Extra Attack).

At worst for a split class 4/4 design, you are delaying it 4 levels, but again depending on the classes the additional features/benefits are worth it.

If you allow it, you will find it greatly increases the overall power of martial builds. If that is your goal, it will do it, but I would try it out to see if it has too great an impact.

 

[Garthanos]

I played with the idea of a martial progression for Extra Attack when MCing similar to casters and spell slot progression, but ultimately decided against the idea.

For most dips, you are only delaying Extra Attack 1-2 levels, and the benefits you get from the other classes usually makes up for it (at least in the short term that you don't have Extra Attack).

At worst for a split class 4/4 design, you are delaying it 4 levels, but again depending on the classes the additional features/benefits are worth it.

If you allow it, you will find it greatly increases the overall power of martial builds. If that is your goal, it will do it, but I would try it out to see if it has too great an impact.

if extra attack wasn't such a huge power jump that would make more sense to me.