5E Martial Levels (control extra attack gain for better MCing)

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Well, you need a good Wis and Dex to multiclass monk anyhow. But emphasizing fighter gives you better weapon choice; more attacks with your action, and depending on what your subclass is, various other cool options and flavorful things such as superiority dice or improved crit range, etc.
My favorites seem to be spear wielders check out Balsa from Moribito about half way through this excerpt she is fighting other elite fighters with a broken spear head and is still refusing to take a life over a life debt she has...
 

Xeviat

Adventurer
yeh I wondered about multi-attacking that erratic progression.. I am thinking of allowing number of opportunity attacks to scale as per extra attacks... but that doesn't address what you are talking about does it.
Nah, my ideas a bit different. Remove extra attack, have weapon attacks scale like cantrips, and then grant the different classes different abilities when they get extra attack.

Fighter can get Weapon Specialization back.
Paladin can start getting their holy damage at different times.
Ranger can get a scaling ability tied to their favored enemy.
Barbarian ... I really want to give them damage on a miss.
Monk might keep multiple attacks and change up how their damage profession works.

Valor Bard and other casters who get extra attack could get War Magic instead, but you'd have to tweak it and specify 1 die of damage like 4E could.

Rogue sneak attack progression would need to be tweaked.

This could allow for a way to build maneuvers for weapon users too.
 

FaerieGodfather

Aberrant Druid
I was going to come here to suggest that Extra Attack should stack the same way Spellcasting stacks.

But I saw the suggest that weapon damage should scale like cantrip damage... and that's really way better.

Perhaps, even better, would be combining the two... so that each extra attack imposes an attack penalty and a damage penalty on all of the attacks.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I was going to come here to suggest that Extra Attack should stack the same way Spellcasting stacks.

But I saw the suggest that weapon damage should scale like cantrip damage... and that's really way better.

Perhaps, even better, would be combining the two... so that each extra attack imposes an attack penalty and a damage penalty on all of the attacks.
It occurred to me one could be much freer with damage resistance if you do scale everything more for me I am fine if that means minion class enemies become ineffectual without some teamwork advantage (as part of a swarm/troop),
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I was going to come here to suggest that Extra Attack should stack the same way Spellcasting stacks.

But I saw the suggest that weapon damage should scale like cantrip damage... and that's really way better.

Perhaps, even better, would be combining the two... so that each extra attack imposes an attack penalty and a damage penalty on all of the attacks.
that means adjusting the extra attack mechanic and one class the fighter? or am I missing something or maybe just the extra attack mechanic?
 

FaerieGodfather

Aberrant Druid
that means adjusting the extra attack mechanic and one class the fighter? or am I missing something or maybe just the extra attack mechanic?
Right now, what I am thinking about-- for a different, non-5e game-- is that each weapon (or each class) has its Damage Die. Your basic weapon and cantrip attacks deal some number of Damage Dice-- starting at 1 and improving by some combination of class/level-- and then when you Extra Attack, you subtract one Damage DIe from each attack per attack you make after the 1st.

I would not accompany this with an attack penalty in 5e. What I am considering for my own game is something like Star Wars Saga Edition, where you suffer a penalty to all attacks based on the number of attacks you make, and class features can reduce that penalty.
 

Xeviat

Adventurer
in what fashion were you thinking... @Xeviat
I've been working on something for a long time. Basically, with weapon dice, you'd have the opportunity to allow players to trade weapon dice for effects. A trip attack that deals less damage (since your targeting the legs instead of the head and torso) to add a save vs prone, for instance.

We already have the -5 to hit for +10 damage mechanic in the game. We can definitely afford to expand combat maneuvers to add more variety in non-casters combat options.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I've been working on something for a long time. Basically, with weapon dice, you'd have the opportunity to allow players to trade weapon dice for effects. A trip attack that deals less damage (since your targeting the legs instead of the head and torso) to add a save vs prone, for instance.

We already have the -5 to hit for +10 damage mechanic in the game. We can definitely afford to expand combat maneuvers to add more variety in non-casters combat options.
I was leveraging trading out extra attacks for CS die. (battlemaster context ofcourse)
 

Xeviat

Adventurer
I was leveraging trading out extra attacks for CS die. (battlemaster context ofcourse)
I mean, most of what the Battle Master maneuvers do can, or considerably could be, done by giving up attacks. The BM just gets to use a resource to not give up anything and do extra damage to boot.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I mean, most of what the Battle Master maneuvers do can, or considerably could be, done by giving up attacks. The BM just gets to use a resource to not give up anything and do extra damage to boot.
Indeed one fairly extensive Variant fighter rewrote and made new maneuvers most with the clause of forgo one attack with CS die to soup them up in some fashion appropriate to the maneuver.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I mean, most of what the Battle Master maneuvers do can, or considerably could be, done by giving up attacks.
I believe someone @Tony Vargas pointed out they have to be things appropriate to doing at level 3 they cannot be too impressive. And since the fighter never gets to do more than the unimpressive plus attacking more we do not have to worry about wizards being offended by martial types able to do anything interesting. Snicker
 
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Xeviat

Adventurer
I believe someone @Tony Vargas pointed out they have to be things appropriate to doing at level 3 they cannot be too impressive. And since the fighter never gets to do more than the unimpressive plus attacking more we do not have to worry about wizards being offended by martial types able to do anything interesting. Snicker
You know what? The BM should be getting higher level maneuvers that cost more dice. I'm working on an entire rewrite of the BM, we'll see how it goes.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
You know what? The BM should be getting higher level maneuvers that cost more dice. I'm working on an entire rewrite of the BM, we'll see how it goes.
yes that is what I actually thought of way back during the Next playtest but all we got was a skeleton. A lot of us thought that.
 
One last time... In general, I disagree. For instance, you could start as a Barbarian, then take 4 levels of Fighter. You are trading your Rage (two uses) with more or less twice your effective HP, bonus damage, and improved AC when not in armor. All-in-all, an equal trade-off for Extra Attack IMO. And the more foes that hit you, the better that half damage thing becomes.
As someone currently playing a Barbarian 1/Fighter 4 I can say that what really makes it worth putting off the extra attack is not that it it really is as good as a straight whatever at level 5, but rather that I also played through levels 1-4 during which I was substantially stronger (even if I rarely had enough rage for every combat).
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
As someone currently playing a Barbarian 1/Fighter 4 I can say that what really makes it worth putting off the extra attack is not that it it really is as good as a straight whatever at level 5, but rather that I also played through levels 1-4 during which I was substantially stronger (even if I rarely had enough rage for every combat).
My issue currently is it seems like its very very variable I apparently lucked into something which seems to have a lot less bang for your buck with picking the monk. I kind of like some of the mythic heroes who were described as so awesome that they could do without the tools but..

I do see your point though that the effect is over the entire 4 levels (and continuing).
 
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Flamestrike

Explorer
I house rule that if you get extra attack and you already have it you may instead select 1 fighting style available to fighters in exchange for that feature.

Makes that level not a totally dead level.
 

Flamestrike

Explorer
I'm currently working on a modified 5E that uses 1/encounter abilities (and at will abilities). Taking inspiration from 3E ToB, but as well as stances, boosts, counters and maneuvers, spells also fit in this category.

For example spells like mirror image, blur, stoneskin etc become stances, shield becomes a counter etc.

I'm trying to do away with daily resources as much as I can, to do away with the 5mwd.

Exhaustion and Hit Points are my current 2 bugbears. I'm struggling to make them encounter based only but am mulling over a few ideas.

I'll post it here when I'm done.

14 days in quarantine needs to be spent doing something.

What a time to be alive.
 

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