D&D 5E Fighters should be the social class

[CubicsRube]

This is my own pet peeve and my own opinion of course, but it's always rubbed me the wrong way that fighters get lower skill choices than many other classes, and that it's the bard who is typically the leader (now sorcerers and warlocks thanks to a helping of CHA based characters).

Firstly, for all the fluff about the intensive study that a wizard must undergo, they still find time to gain as many proficiencies as a fighter, who should by comparison have more time available to practice other things.

Secondly, a fighter should really be the most common and relatable of the classes amongst common people. Someone who adventures by the strength of their arm should be more understandable and less "weird" than someone who casts magic because they have dragon blood, or even someone who casts magic out of their lute.

Thirdly, there's often mention how a fighter has little utility outside of combat. Some people may like that, others may not. A choice like this however, gives those who want that utility to be available to them.

Whether or not the starting fighter dumps CHA or not, I feel that they should have more choices beyond insight and intimidation.

If I were going to modify them, I would give them a third skill choice at creation and allow them to choose persuasion and deception in their skill list.

I'm not sure how I would approach the relatability issue differently however. Running a campaign, I might consider altering the DC based on who the audience is. For example, a foppish bard trying to win over a garrison of hardened frontier soldiers should have a harder time IMO than the grizzled fighter in the party who speaks their language.

Do you think that Fighters should have more social ability? And how would you go about it?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well, really any character can begin with any skills because backgrounds are completely customizable. If you want a fighter to have Persuasion and Deception, for instance, you can take Urban Bounty Hunter:

or just make up your own.

Anyway, just because a PC has a high CHA doesn't make them a "leader" for most parties IME. They are often more the "face-man" with the skills needed for that.

As to things like the fighter speaking the language of the guards the party wants to pass, that can also be ruled by the DM granting the fighter advantage on the check maybe. Also, the Soldier background feature, Military Rank, would help for fighters with that background.

So, you can certainly give the fighter a few more skills in their list, or just use backgrounds to make up for it.

 

[CubicsRube]

Yes I frequently use customised backgrounds more than the examples in the PHB.

I don't really have a purpose for this post other than a rant. You CAN make a fighter socially competent. I guess my argument is that it should be the logical default.

 

[Asisreo]

Yes I frequently use customised backgrounds more than the examples in the PHB.

I don't really have a purpose for this post other than a rant. You CAN make a fighter socially competent. I guess my argument is that it should be the logical default.

Why's that? It doesn't seem like something I'd consider a default for someone called a "fighter." Being good at all physical interactions is nice, but I don't think social interactions should be a default focus for the class.

They're called "fighters" not "talkers."

 

[aco175]

I think Conan spent his ASIs on Charisma so he could be good leader. Who lead the fellowship of the ring- Gandolf or Aragorn? A lot of books and movies have the fighting type as the leader with the mage or bookish type be the not as cool guy

 

[Mistwell]

I think Fighters should start with more skills, I just don't peg them as the "social" class.

The intimidating class? Yes. The perceptive class? Definitely. The Athletics class? For sure. One of the classes more likely to be skilled in survival? Yeah. Skilled at insight? Yup. A class with knowledge of medicine? Maybe. Good at investigations? Maybe.

But persuasion and deception? Not really something I'd peg for a fighter. The town guard isn't know for diplomacy really, are they? I mean, I guess sure they need some skills there, but I think it's backed by their threat of violence backed by government authority and that's what makes them persuasive. Take them out of the guard context and that persuasion goes away.

 

[Mort]

I think Conan spent his ASIs on Charisma so he could be good leader. ...

Only because the player clearly cheated and "rolled" an 18 Strength, Con and Dex - and the DM let him get away with it!

 

[auburn2]

Do you think that Fighters should have more social ability? And how would you go about it?

Disagree, the fighter is the militant class, the bashing brute and as far as the CLASS goes I think both ths skills available and the number are perfect for the CLASS.

That is not to say you should play a brute, you should tailor it to how you want to play. If you want to build a high-charisma social fighter you can do that and get the proficiencies with background, races and feats, but it should not be part of the class because it is not part of what the class is centered on.

If you want a social fighter it is a pretty easy build - for example take insight and intimidation from the fighter class, take faction agent or urban background and get deception and persuasion. Be a variant human and pick up performance - you are now proficient in every Charisma skill plus insight and that is without using a feat. You could even go half elf and get another semi-social skill like history or religion.

Also FWIW Warlocks do not get better social skill proficiencies than fighters do, they generally have a higher Charisma meaning they will be better at them without proficiency, but they do not get great social skill choices as part of their class.

Finally Bards, sorcerers or warlocks are not the most social class at my table. They have the highest Charisma and bards have a lot of skills but the Rogue is usually the face because they have more skills and in addition have expertise. Our Rogues almost always have expertise in one of the social skills (typically intimidation). It is typically one skill with expertise and most of the rest of the CH skills with regular proficiency (or all the rest with a human or half elf) . With a mediocre Charisma that is usually better than the bard offers because while the bard is better without proficiency, the Bard is not usually proficient in as many social skills (half-elf excepted) and lacks the expertise in one of them.

 

[CubicsRube]

Why's that? It doesn't seem like something I'd consider a default for someone called a "fighter." Being good at all physical interactions is nice, but I don't think social interactions should be a default focus for the class.

They're called "fighters" not "talkers."

Because feudal and faux medieval societies often idolize great warriors, because Beowulf & Conan are the stars of ancient tales. Because as I said before, the common person would be much more able to understand and relate to someone who defeats evil by the might of their arm, rather than occult practices they don't understand, or perhaps fear.

No class is called a "talker", by the way.

 

[CubicsRube]

I think Fighters should start with more skills, I just don't peg them as the "social" class.

The intimidating class? Yes. The perceptive class? Definitely. The Athletics class? For sure. One of the classes more likely to be skilled in survival? Yeah. Skilled at insight? Yup. A class with knowledge of medicine? Maybe. Good at investigations? Maybe.

But persuasion and deception? Not really something I'd peg for a fighter. The town guard isn't know for diplomacy really, are they? I mean, I guess sure they need some skills there, but I think it's backed by their threat of violence backed by government authority and that's what makes them persuasive. Take them out of the guard context and that persuasion goes away.

Guards become guard captains, and become military leaders, protectors of nations, slayers of mighty beasts, or even kings. I think that's a well established archetype in most fantasy literature.

Also, fighters are not guards, they are already considered more talented, or possessing something on top of a regular soldier as established by the fiction in the PHB:

Trained for Danger
Not every member of the city watch, the village militia, or the queen’s army is a fighter. Most of these troops are relatively untrained soldiers with only the most basic combat knowledge. Veteran soldiers, military officers, trained bodyguards, dedicated knights, and similar figures are fighters.