D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction

The latest Unearthed Arcana contains the Dhampir, Reborn, and Hexblood races. The Dhampir is a half-vampire; the Hexblood is a character which has made a pact with a hag; and the Reborn is somebody brought back to life. https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/gothic-lineages Perhaps the bigger news is this declaration on how race is to be handled in future D&D books as it joins...

The latest Unearthed Arcana contains the Dhampir, Reborn, and Hexblood races. The Dhampir is a half-vampire; the Hexblood is a character which has made a pact with a hag; and the Reborn is somebody brought back to life.

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Perhaps the bigger news is this declaration on how race is to be handled in future D&D books as it joins other games by stating that:

"...the race options in this article and in future D&D books lack the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, the Alignment trait, and any other trait that is purely cultural. Racial traits henceforth reflect only the physical or magical realities of being a player character who’s a member of a particular lineage. Such traits include things like darkvision, a breath weapon (as in the dragonborn), or innate magical ability (as in the forest gnome). Such traits don’t include cultural characteristics, like language or training with a weapon or a tool, and the traits also don’t include an alignment suggestion, since alignment is a choice for each individual, not a characteristic shared by a lineage."
 

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Faolyn

(she/her)
What has this got to do with elephants (or goliaths) being naturally stronger than mice (or halflings)? That the difference is NOT merely cultural! That a mouse (or halfling) raised by elephants (or goliaths) will not be stronger (on average) than an elephant (or goliath) raised by mice (or halflings)?
OK, but that has nothing to do with allowing people to assign their +2/+1 as they wish.

1: There's a max cap on attributes in 5e anyway, which means that even if all goliaths started out with +2 in Strength and no halflings did, they could still both end up with 20 Str anyway. Just not at the same time.

2: Strength, the ability score, is not a direct comparison to strength, the effect caused by muscles. It's an abstract ability to determine how much extra damage they do with weapons. Also, Small creatures can't use heavy weapons without a hefty penalty, which means they're limited in the amount of damage they can do anyway.

2a: In the real world, many small creatures are actually proportionately stronger than larger ones. I've read that a mouse can lift up to twice its body weight and can easily support its weight with one paw, while an elephant can't. Mice can also jump and climb--both functions of Strength in D&D--while elephants can't.

3: Goliaths (and firbolgs, bugbears, orcs, loxodon, and centaurs) are always going to be naturally stronger than halflings (and gnomes, goblins, and kobolds) because goliaths can lift and carry things like Large creatures and Small creatures get a penalty to lifting and carrying things. So even if a halfling has a higher Strength than a goliath, it still won't be able to out-lift a goliath. And most people in the real world consider lifting capacity to be a better indication of innate physical strength than the ability to hit people, which is seen as a learned skill.

3a: Lots of tables barely even care about encumbrance or lifting abilities anyway, except at those in-game times when they have to lift a gate or bend a bar. And that's an Athletics roll, which is a skill that all goliaths have.

4: These rules apply only to PCs, of which there are usually no more than 4-6 in any given world. Assuming that any of those PCs actually are halflings (when there are so many races to choose from), then having one halfling be a muscle-bound steroid user among the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of halflings in that world isn't going to hurt anything--nor will that one 198-pound goliath weakling.

5: Assuming a player even wants to be a a super-strong halfling, of course. Like the game-breaking influx of mountain dwarf wizards that never happened, there aren't likely to be that many players who desperately want to play a super-strong halfling. But there are going to be a few, so is it really that big a deal to let them?

6:. A bucolic halfling rarely has to carry a lot of heavy things at all, besides the occasional keg of ale or particularly large wheel of cheese. A halfling raised in a more strength-based society would develop a more muscular frame than one who wasn't. Likewise, a goliath raised in a culture that didn't require a lot of physical activity would be much more physically weak than one raised in a "traditional" goliath culture.
 

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Scribe

Legend
OK, but that has nothing to do with allowing people to assign their +2/+1 as they wish.

5: Assuming a player even wants to be a a super-strong halfling, of course. Like the game-breaking influx of mountain dwarf wizards that never happened, there aren't likely to be that many players who desperately want to play a super-strong halfling. But there are going to be a few, so is it really that big a deal to let them?

Neither of these are my concern. I'm 100% open to allowing Tasha's at your table, and I'm 100% open to allowing Halflings or anything else to be as strong as any other player character at Level 1. Neither of those things would impact me in the least unless.

I lose, moving forward, the framework where Halflings are NOT as strong potentially, as Goliath, which is what I want. Increasingly it will appear this will have to be managed on my own, or through a third party, and thats just the way it goes, but I wish my view could at least be acknowledged here without it being misconstrued or called racist, or whatever other intentional misinterpretation one wishes to apply to me, and the argument I've been making consistently across the entire thread.

Again, I dont care if people have options. I dont care if Tasha's becomes the default, unless, they cease to provide my option as well. That is the issue.
 

Laurefindel

Legend
3: Goliaths (and firbolgs, bugbears, orcs, loxodon, and centaurs) are always going to be naturally stronger than halflings (and gnomes, goblins, and kobolds) because goliaths can lift and carry things like Large creatures and Small creatures get a penalty to lifting and carrying things. So even if a halfling has a higher Strength than a goliath, it still won't be able to out-lift a goliath. And most people in the real world consider lifting capacity to be a better indication of innate physical strength than the ability to hit people, which is seen as a learned skill.
Actually, by RaW, small creatures/races have no lifting and carrying modifiers or penalties of any sort in 5e. Races with Powerful Built, such as Goliath and Loxodon (and Firbolg, Centaur (kind-of), and Bugbear), can carry twice as much as small or medium-sized creatures however.

So yes; Goliaths and Loxodons will always appear naturally stronger, but not because the halfling is "weak". Not that it changes anything to the argument...
 
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palikhov

Ukrainian
About orcs as savage... I thought that scro from Spelljammer setting is orcs too. And they are very civilized.

Maybe it's better to say that race is setting dependent thing?
 

So, sure we can have super strong halflings, but there's still the issue of smaller races suffering penalties(disadvantage) if they try to wield a heavy weapon. So if Hercules the Halfling can lift a mountain/is bench pressing as Mr. Faerun America, why is he having probs wielding a Fullblade, Buster Sword, or Gut's Dragon Slayer?

So they would have to technically errata that rule away if Hercules the Halfling can be stronger than an Goliath. Unless he's taking it easy on his Goliath roommate because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings when it comes to a muscle off.

Then again, you could also do a whole two can play that game by having big beefy bois like the Goliath suffer disadvantage for trying to use a "small" weapon like a dagger. Yet that would probably still feel a bit weird because you think a Goliath trapper, living out in the primal wilds, would use a dagger when it came to harvesting animal parts and what not.

Of course the real question is: holy jeez la mother of morte bella lunna guadalupe why is this thread discussing a halfling and a goliath when non of them are probably cosplaying as a Dhampir, Hexblood, or Reborn for the UA?
 

dave2008

Legend
@Scribe I was just thinking about you and racial stat modifiers at lunch and I had an idea that may or may not satisfy you. Would the following be acceptable to you for a future 5.5e or 6e:
  1. The basic rules have floating stat bonus similar to TCoE and the UA, but no racial stat bonuses.
  2. All setting guides allow you to use the default character generation, or the racial stat bonuses assumed in this setting. And then it gives stat modifiers for every race available in that setting.
Would that work for you? Personally I like the base game to be as generic as possible and then add flavor in the settings. Anyway, just curious what you thought.
 
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palikhov

Ukrainian
@Scribe I was just thinking about you and racial stat modifiers at lunch and I had an idea that may or may not satisfy you. Would the following be acceptable to you for a future 5.5e or 6e:
  1. The basic rules have floating stat bonus similar to TCoE and the UA, but no racial stat bonuses.
  2. All setting guides said you can use the default character generation, or the racial stat bonuses assumed in this setting. And then it gives stat modifiers for every race available in that setting.
Would that work for you? Personally I like the base game to be as generic as possible and then add flavor in the settings. Anyway, just curious what you thought.

I am not Scribe but I think it can be a possible solution to all.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Actually, by RaW, small creatures/races have no lifting and carrying modifiers or penalties of any sort in 5e. Races with Powerful Built, such as Goliath and Loxodon (and Firbolg, Centaur (kind-of), and Bugbear), can carry twice as much as small or medium-sized creatures however.

So yes; Goliaths and Loxodons will always appear naturally stronger, but not because the halfling is "weak". Not that it changes anything to the argument...
Mea culpa.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
So, sure we can have super strong halflings, but there's still the issue of smaller races suffering penalties(disadvantage) if they try to wield a heavy weapon. So if Hercules the Halfling can lift a mountain/is bench pressing as Mr. Faerun America, why is he having probs wielding a Fullblade, Buster Sword, or Gut's Dragon Slayer?
There's a difference between bench-pressing something and using it as a weapon.
 


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