D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Gothic Lineages & New Race/Culture Distinction

The latest Unearthed Arcana contains the Dhampir, Reborn, and Hexblood races. The Dhampir is a half-vampire; the Hexblood is a character which has made a pact with a hag; and the Reborn is somebody brought back to life.

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Perhaps the bigger news is this declaration on how race is to be handled in future D&D books as it joins other games by stating that:

"...the race options in this article and in future D&D books lack the Ability Score Increase trait, the Language trait, the Alignment trait, and any other trait that is purely cultural. Racial traits henceforth reflect only the physical or magical realities of being a player character who’s a member of a particular lineage. Such traits include things like darkvision, a breath weapon (as in the dragonborn), or innate magical ability (as in the forest gnome). Such traits don’t include cultural characteristics, like language or training with a weapon or a tool, and the traits also don’t include an alignment suggestion, since alignment is a choice for each individual, not a characteristic shared by a lineage."

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Honestly? Because I really want to hear reasons why people think pigeonholing all halflings as Dexterity-y or all tieflings as Charisma-y is better, either in-game or for meta-reasons, than letting players choose what their individual characters are like. There's a reason why I kept asking people, including you, that, and I'm sure there's a reason why nobody is giving me an answer. Call me petty or say I'm sealioning if you like, but I really want to know the reason. I mean, maybe you have a good reason, even if I can't think of one.

They are not pigeonholed unless you are a min-maxer that always has to be the best of the best. Some species being able to be a tiny bit better in certain things simulates that aspect being a specific forte of that species. And you already got to choose your individual characteristic in the PHB version, that's what the point buy is for.

Seriously, this is why we cannot have nice things. You cannot give one species a small bonus in certain area, because then min-maxers will fixate on that, decide that is now the default and any species without that bonus is worthless. And then they have nerve to complain about the character choices being limited, even though the limitation only exists in their own head.

 

[Scribe]

Honestly? Because I really want to hear reasons why people think pigeonholing all halflings as Dexterity-y or all tieflings as Charisma-y is better, either in-game or for meta-reasons, than letting players choose what their individual characters are like. There's a reason why I kept asking people, including you, that, and I'm sure there's a reason why nobody is giving me an answer. Call me petty or say I'm sealioning if you like, but I really want to know the reason. I mean, maybe you have a good reason, even if I can't think of one.

Because I think the concept of a 3 foot tall being, being potentially on pat with an 8 foot talk being, is farcical, when comparing Strength.

Because I think the concept of a Dwarf being as agile or nimble as an Elf, is farcical.

Like, I don't know what to tell you, in as plain language as possible, I find the concepts to be a joke. Period.

I'm glad you have a flexible and open group that aligns with your thinking.

I'm glad you will have an official ruling that supports your desired outcome.

I, will simply make my own.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well, some traits are "worth more" than others. Magic Resistance (satyrs, yuan-ti) are probably worth a lot more than advantage on saves against charm/frightened (elves), and at least a little bit more than Magic Resistance that applies to Int/Wis/Cha saves (gnomes). If you wanted to do this, you'd probably have to assign a point value to each trait. Have you seen the "detect balance" spreadsheet, by chance?

Well, it depends on how complicated you want to make it. Yes, point system would result the best balance, but might be too cumbersome for casual use. With half-feat-based system the best traits such as universal magic resistance could easily be costed at two traits, i.e. at one full feat.

 

[Faolyn]

Because I think the concept of a 3 foot tall being, being potentially on pat with an 8 foot talk being, is farcical, when comparing Strength.

Because I think the concept of a Dwarf being as agile or nimble as an Elf, is farcical.

Fiends are often seen as being extremely strong and fast, so is a tiefling with a bonus in Strength or Dex farcical? Elves live for hundreds of years and accumulate a lot of knowledge in that time, so is an elf with great Wisdom farcical? Hobgoblins are seen as militaristic, so is a hobgoblin captain with a high Charisma who can motivate the troops farcical? Firbolgs are as big as goliaths, so is a powerfully-muscled firbolg farcical? Kobolds have always been shown as trap-makers, so is a smart kobold with high Intelligence farcical?

You keep focusing on these things you view as polar opposites--strong halflings and agile dwarfs--but you haven't addressed the many more instances where the possibilities are not opposites? Have you even considered them? Or are you too focused on disliking only certain combinations?

 

[Scribe]

Fiends are often seen as being extremely strong and fast, so is a tiefling with a bonus in Strength or Dex farcical? Elves live for hundreds of years and accumulate a lot of knowledge in that time, so is an elf with great Wisdom farcical? Hobgoblins are seen as militaristic, so is a hobgoblin captain with a high Charisma who can motivate the troops farcical? Firbolgs are as big as goliaths, so is a powerfully-muscled firbolg farcical? Kobolds have always been shown as trap-makers, so is a smart kobold with high Intelligence farcical?

You keep focusing on these things you view as polar opposites--strong halflings and agile dwarfs--but you haven't addressed the many more instances where the possibilities are not opposites? Have you even considered them? Or are you too focused on disliking only certain combinations?

Sigh...for the 'non physical' attributes as has been covered they are more loose in determination. The 2 primary issues are Str/Dex, logically, Con, but Int/Wis/Cha, are mostly whatever to me. Did you see my post on how I intend to handle this? It was a few pages ago.

Tiefling: Charisma, Int (Asmodeus, Baalzebul, Mammon, Meph), Dex (Dispater, Glasya), Str (Zariel)
Elves: Wisdom (Wood Elf, Pallid Elf)

Do you see what I'm saying here?

Yes, I'm going to keep looking at the polar opposites because that is the easiest way to demonstrate how idiotic I view Floating ASI.

Do whatever you like. I'll never think that on the face of biology a Halfing, 3 feet tall and 40 pounds soaking wet, no matter how exceptional, should be as strong as a Goliath, or Half Orc, or even a Human or Half-Elf, focusing on Strength.

That doesnt make a SINGLE difference in your game. So go have fun and enjoy your Floating ASI.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Sigh...for the 'non physical' attributes as has been covered they are more loose in determination. The 2 primary issues are Str/Dex, logically, Con, but Int/Wis/Cha, are mostly whatever to me. Did you see my post on how I intend to handle this? It was a few pages ago.

Tiefling: Charisma, Int (Asmodeus, Baalzebul, Mammon, Meph), Dex (Dispater, Glasya), Str (Zariel)
Elves: Wisdom (Wood Elf, Pallid Elf)

Do you see what I'm saying here?

Yes, I'm going to keep looking at the polar opposites because that is the easiest way to demonstrate how idiotic I view Floating ASI.

Do whatever you like. I'll never think that on the face of biology a Halfing, 3 feet tall and 40 pounds soaking wet, no matter how exceptional, should be as strong as a Goliath, or Half Orc, or even a Human or Half-Elf, focusing on Strength.

That doesnt make a SINGLE difference in your game. So go have fun and enjoy your Floating ASI.

so we should have caps on max stat as that would fit your desire far better.

 

[Faolyn]

Sigh...for the 'non physical' attributes as has been covered they are more loose in determination. The 2 primary issues are Str/Dex, logically, Con, but Int/Wis/Cha, are mostly whatever to me. Did you see my post on how I intend to handle this? It was a few pages ago.

Tiefling: Charisma, Int (Asmodeus, Baalzebul, Mammon, Meph), Dex (Dispater, Glasya), Str (Zariel)
Elves: Wisdom (Wood Elf, Pallid Elf)

Do you see what I'm saying here?

Yes--you're still ignoring the idea of races getting different +2s because a few of them have subraces that get a bonus. And you're ignoring that those subraces have lots of traits which are, quite frankly, more important than their ASIs. And you're ignoring that many races don't have subraces, or have world-specific or simply optional subraces.

And I honestly don't see how "non-physical" attributes are more loose in determination, when all three of them are of utmost important for casters. Or how with the physical attributes, you could easily say that a member of a physically weak race has a weird quirk and that's why they have a high Strength or Dexterity. "Yeah, those halflings normally have the physical strength of a five-year-old human, but look out for Bob there--a while ago he pulled a thorn out of a bear's paw and it turned out the bear was an avatar of Kord, and Kord was grateful, so yowza, now Bob can lift a full tun of ale!"

So I guess I just don't get why that's such a dealbreaker for you. Because again, we're talking about unusual individuals, not an entire race of people.

 

[Scribe]

so we should have caps on max stat as that would fit your desire far better.

I am a fan of caps, and even negative modifiers.

But those don't exist in this edition.

They are however in the 3.5 SRD, I'll have to think about if it's worth pulling them forward.

 

[Scribe]

Yes--you're still ignoring the idea of races getting different +2s because a few of them have subraces that get a bonus. And you're ignoring that those subraces have lots of traits which are, quite frankly, more important than their ASIs. And you're ignoring that many races don't have subraces, or have world-specific or simply optional subraces.

And I honestly don't see how "non-physical" attributes are more loose in determination, when all three of them are of utmost important for casters. Or how with the physical attributes, you could easily say that a member of a physically weak race has a weird quirk and that's why they have a high Strength or Dexterity. "Yeah, those halflings normally have the physical strength of a five-year-old human, but look out for Bob there--a while ago he pulled a thorn out of a bear's paw and it turned out the bear was an avatar of Kord, and Kord was grateful, so yowza, now Bob can lift a full tun of ale!"

So I guess I just don't get why that's such a dealbreaker for you. Because again, we're talking about unusual individuals, not an entire race of people.

Do you physically have context around something 3 feet tall? Do you lift or work out? 40 pounds.

You'll never, ever convince me. I find the very idea that something so small, could be as strong as well, even your average adult human absolutely idiotic.

I mean what do want me to say? I've trained kids. I've trained heavyweights.

You'll never change my mind. It's simply stupid, right off the top.

So change how ASI are assigned, as I outlined a few pages back. You can get your 2/1 split.

In my system, it simply has nothing to do with the characters lineage.

Because Halflings are not strong.

 

[bedir than]

I mean what do want me to say? I've trained kids.

Are they able to attempt to dodge dragonfire twice?