Falcon and winter solider

[Imaculata]

As spectators we all bring our personal experience when watching a tv show or movie. It colours our perception and we attribute meaning to the scene. Often attributing meaning the director and writer didn't intend.

I agree. And for the record, I'm not stating for a fact that the scene we are talking about was about racism. I just interpreted it as such. And it would seem I am not alone in that interpretation.

As per my training in film studies at university you must analyze a scene with what is actually in it. There must be a sentence, a telling camera shot or facial expression that states the person is racist.

Well, I saw implied racism in the scene based on the reaction of Falcon and his sister.

Otherwise you are in the realm of personal interpretation.

I think you are in the realm of personal interpretation regardless, unless the creators explicitly state what a scene is about. And even then, sometimes the meaning stated by the creator can be dismissed by the viewer. Death of the author and all.

 

[megamania]

I'll have to rewatch it,but it seems to me that the banker was denying the loan based on actual rules and not because Sam's black,unless you're all saying the rules themselves are racist.

I'm pretty sure that if loans were done the way they were back in ye olden days,all based on character, not credit score or other rules Sam would have gotten the loan.

That was my thoughts also. This showed how being a hero has its limits and also- possible plot points in the future.

"I can save your sister's business if you overlook this shipment. Overlooking is not illegal. Think of how much it would mean to her."

 

[wicked cool]

Many who are implying racism need to try and start a business with no income/tons of debt etc. Your not getting the loan. He asks Falcon if theres any income from being a super. Probably changes the outcome of the decision if he did. Falcon is trying to hold onto a dream and this scene could foreshadow them doing something to get money (I can see mercenary work down the line)

Falcons scenes in the beginning were great television and I hope we get more of that

Buckys past is going to be really interesting once people figure it out

 

[hawkeyefan]

I feel amidst the chaotic plots, the racism in LC became almost cartoonish and some of the message was lost. This is just my personal opinion, but I feel that when you portray the racists as cartoon villains who also dabble in black magic, the message gets lost.

Although I agree at times LC leaned into some cartoonish villainy, I thought that at other times, the kind of sudden and extreme racism the characters encountered was similar to the way mythos monsters would suddenly intrude upon reality. That kind of comparison between supernatural horror and a real, tangible horror worked for me.

Like, who needs tentacled monstrosities to come along out of nowhere when we have perfectly good mundane monsters ready to go?

As per my training in film studies at university you must analyze a scene with was is actually in it. There must be a sentence, a telling camera shot or facial expression that states the person is racist. Otherwise you are in the realm of personal interpretation. I didn't see any of that in the banker scene. In fact the banker is a fan of Falcon. A racist wouldn't be a fan of a black person regardless of who he is.

I don't think that the banker was necessarily a racist so much as he was simply a representative of a system that is in ways inherently racist. His etiquette puts him in a bad light, for sure, but I don't think that alone is enough to say he's a racist. But he's not willing to give them a loan, which confirms Falcon's sister's expectations, which I think are based on race.

There is no flashing red caption at the bottom of the screen "THIS IS ABOUT RACISM", but there seems to be some hints in there. I expect that we'll see more of this come up as the series moves along, and then I think the context of this scene may become more obvious.

 

[billd91]

Many who are implying racism need to try and start a business with no income/tons of debt etc. Your not getting the loan. He asks Falcon if theres any income from being a super. Probably changes the outcome of the decision if he did. Falcon is trying to hold onto a dream and this scene could foreshadow them doing something to get money (I can see mercenary work down the line)

This isn't about starting a business - this is about consolidating debts that already exist for a business that already exists and has banked there for 2 generations.

 

[MarkB]

This isn't about starting a business - this is about consolidating debts that already exist for a business that already exists and has banked there for 2 generations.

And which presumably needed to look elsewhere for those loans in the first place because the bank they'd used for 2 generations didn't consider them a good risk. Why would that have changed?

 

[wicked cool]

This isn't about starting a business - this is about consolidating debts that already exist for a business that already exists and has banked there for 2 generations.

banking there for generations went away pre 1970 plus it appears they don't have a lot of cash in the bank. Basically the sister will need to file bankruptcy and get government assistance

We had a crisis when loans (housing) were given to families that didn't have the ability to repay the loan. The mortgage industry collapsed about 15 years ago. the banking industry is heavily regulated by the federal government in the USA. the us government has stepped in right now during the pandemic to prevent landlords from throwing people out of their homes/raising rent

loans including consolidation are based on your ability to repay the loan back (they are looking for a bigger loan as they need consolidation plus cash fyi). they don't have the ability to repay the loan back as they don't have any income. the sister is selling the boat as she doesnt have money to fix it and falcon clearly cant based on the fix it scene

the only thing hes guilty of is treating Falcon like a celebrity and acting like a fool. He could potentially damage the reputation of the bank and should be spoken to by management over that

banking now is all numbers based and a tract record of 2 years of positive income over debt.


now Nick fury probably has a different outcome when walking into the same bank to start the same business . He has demonstrated a steady income (more than likely Nick fury is making well over 6 figures). Has considerable assets etc. Don Cheadles character is probably also in the same boat

I would say 3/4 of the current avengers don't get the loan
Thor-No assets, no job
antman-criminal record?, no job, no assets

If you think about it without Stark many of the avengers are practically homeless/wanted by the law etc

theres so many real world celebrities when they run out of money they have to get jobs in the private sector. the smart ones start a business while they are getting income

you go to a 2nd tier comicon and you get celebrities making money off autographs because they need the money. Otherwise they would do what Falcon tried to do.

Lebron James-used part of his own money to buy part of the redsox. He didn't use his name he used his wallet

Do a quick search on Gary Colemam-big celeb in the 70's-made close to 18 million. lost most of it and worked as a mall security guard before he died

 

[Zaukrie]

Yeah, no. Celebrities are celebrities regardless of race. It's part and parcel of judging someone on appearances instead of treating them as an individual.

Notice that, although the banker is happy to meet someone so famous, he doesn't respect him in the slightest. Thus the asking him to flap his arms for a selfie.

This.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

A racist wouldn't be a fan of a black person regardless of who he is.

There are plenty of racist sports and movie fans who like specific black athletes and actors/performers but who hands down DON'T like black people. I've experienced this repeatedly in my almost 50 years on this planet.

Your statement is just wrong. Flat out WRONG.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

America has a history of racial discrimination when it comes to housing and mortgages and business loans. A LONG history of it. For some of you its easy enough to say well Sam was at fault. There have been tests done by civil rights orgs who have sent a black couple in to apply for a loan / mortgage and they've been rejected only to send a white couple with the SAME EXACT income requirements and financials in and get approved.

And the entire time the bank loan officer is friendly and professional. A lot of people in power with these biases ARENT open, sneering cartoon villains. They're our children's teachers, our doctors, our bosses, our mechanics and yes...our bank loan officers.

That's part of the reality that the writers are trying to get across I think. It was something that I picked up on almost immediately and the actor playing the loan officer (deliberately) does an excellent job of being disarming and almost harmless. Hell, the character may even be unaware that his biases are coloring his decisions. It dosent make his decisions any less impactful.

I think that, and I dont mean this as a slight or slam, people might want to start getting used to viewing things from a different point of view than the mainstream. Especially as more and more writers and creators and characters of color are being put out there and are writing from real life experiences. and not writing things to make the mainstream feel better about themselves.