D&D 5E A different take on Alignment

[Maxperson]

Look, pal, EVERYONE advocates that the game be more like what they want it to be. Most of us don't get what we want, and we shrug and move on in one way or another. But it's not petty and wrong to say "I wish the game were more like this, because then I would like it better." You're doing the exact same thing yourself. Don't pretend like advocating FOR alignment is some kind of altruistic moral imperative because of the poor, downtrodden bad roleplayers.

Usually people advocate for adding what they like to the game, not taking toys away from others. One is fine and the other.............petty.

 

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson is the only one saying that and I don't think it's the only reason they believe alignment is used. People that use alignment use it for all sorts of reasons. For some, it is a bit of a crutch. I don't think that makes it a bad thing.

I never said that, though. I never even implied that only the uncreative use it. That's a pretty hefty Strawman of my position. I have said numerous times that alignment is for those who like it and want to use it. Hell, I've said a bunch that I use it a ton as a DM tool for NPCs, despite my being creative enough that I don't use it for my PCs. I am also saying that there are those for whom Ideals, etc. don't cut it. Some people are not as creative and need alignment to help them.

 

[Desdichado]

Usually people advocate for adding what they like to the game, not taking toys away from others. One is fine and the other.............petty.

Yes, you're absolutely right. Nobody has EVER complained about bloat of low utility complexity being a problem in any D&D version of D&D-like game before. Especially for atavistic rules that have minimal—if ANY—impact to the game, by your own description.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So I'm not saying you're stupid but everything you say is really dumb? If you disagree that's fine. Explain why, insults get old.

Did you just literally quote me explaining why the argument is laughable, say I'm not explaining why the argument is laughable, and then say what I say is dumb?

The blast furnace of bad faith argumentation in this thread is astonishing. And it's not just from the guy that responds to everything with 'Ha! So you actually agree with me. Thank you for that!' and calling everything a strawman like they had one day in Psychology 101.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Then my question is for you to define alignment as you see it?

Not sure I understand your question? I mean, alignment is pretty clearly a framework included as one of the rules of D&D. I’m not sure you can get more specific than that, as the number of alignments vary depending on the editions, as does their role in the game, and even what individual alignments mean.

 

[Oofta]

Yes, you're absolutely right. Nobody has EVER complained about bloat of low utility complexity being a problem in any D&D version of D&D-like game before. Especially for atavistic rules that have minimal—if ANY—impact to the game, by your own description.

Yeah, those two whole letter I wrote down on my character sheet ... the hand cramps were awful!

 

[Oofta]

Did you just literally quote me explaining why the argument is laughable, say I'm not explaining why the argument is laughable, and then say what I say is dumb?

The blast furnace of bad faith argumentation in this thread is astonishing. And it's not just from the guy that responds to everything with 'Ha! So you actually agree with me. Thank you for that!' and calling everything a strawman like they had one day in Psychology 101.

Listen. If you want to discuss the topic that's fine. Childish taunts? Booorrrrinnng.

 

[Desdichado]

The blast furnace of bad faith argumentation in this thread is astonishing. And it's not just from the guy that responds to everything with 'Ha! So you actually agree with me. Thank you for that!' and calling everything a strawman like they had one day in Psychology 101.

That's actually one of the major reasons that I advocate for the abolition of alignment. It's my long, sad experience that it is almost impossible to have a non-contentious discussion about alignment. The concept itself is so obviously flawed that there is no widespread agreement about it within the player base. It is the source of all kinds of confusion and frustration, much more to the degree to which it provides any benefit. Alignment is, and honestly probably always was, a net drain on the system overall.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Listen. If you want to discuss the topic that's fine. Childish taunts? Booorrrrinnng.

Irony!

Three days. English 101.

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah, those two whole letter I wrote down on my character sheet ... the hand cramps were awful!

So you wrote down two letters and then did nothing else with alignment the whole rest of the game forever and ever? OK...

That seems more like an attempt to be clever through deliberate obtuseness than anything else. Which, y'know, I don't mind cleverness. But it's often hard to get that across online sometimes.