Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #17: Journeys

Faolyn · Apr 28, 2021

All right, folks, just assume that most people are going to be traveling at a Slow pace, and only mighty adventurers are going to be going at a Normal pace.

Waller · Apr 28, 2021

dave2008 said:
I would serious doubt the source that provided you this information.

The source is Vegitius, an expert on Roman military organization who wrote De Re Militari in the 4th century.

"They should march with the common military step twenty miles in five summer-hours, and with the full step, which is quicker, twenty-four miles in the same number of hours."

I trust the source.

dave2008 · Apr 28, 2021

Steampunkette said:
8 hours of marching, 8 hours of long rest, the remaining 8 hours are rest stops, meal breaks, regrouping.

You could definitely do 24-32 in that time. And your feet, legs, and back would ACHE from it.

As to the "You're wearing full armor!" argument. Full Armor isn't THAT heavy. Sure if you're wearing a full set of plate armor with associated padding, maille beneath, straps, and such you'd be looking at 30-50 pounds (Depending on style and your specific body structure). But unlike a Backpack, that weight is distributed across your form. Some of it is resting on your hips. Some of it is resting on your shoulders. Some of it is supported by straps squeezing across your torso, or arm, or thigh, breaking up the weight into more manageable pieces.

Because it was -designed- to move and fight in, which meant it couldn't be overbearing in any one aspect, or wear down your energy level too drastically since it'd leave you stranded in the middle of a battlefield if you collapsed from exhaustion.

Though, in all honesty, I would tell my player "You cannot travel overland in heavy armor without significantly losing speed unless you are mounted" And I have done so in the past.

And since heavy armor (and short legs) slow you down in combat, slap the "Slow" speed on anyone wearing heavy armor (or under 4ft in height) for overland travel. Make their "Fast" into unarmored (tall people) normal.

And heavily armored halflings move at a crawl. MUAHAHAHAHAAAA!

I mean... Break it down. The 24 hour a day march is 8 hours of walking. 24/8=3. Can you walk 3 miles in an hour and still have time to take a quick potty break, snag a cup of water, and get a few minutes of rest before doing it again? Then you can get 24 miles in 8 hours.

If you can manage an 18 minute mile you're capable of a 3 mile per hour speed with 6 minutes of faffing about and making no progress. If you can do one in 15 that gives you 15 minutes of faffing about. And if you walk a 12 minute mile, that's a whopping 24 minutes of just chilling with your friends on the trail.

24 miles in a day is very reasonable.

Just an FYI, the average human walks about 3.1 mph, but that is flat even terrain. Most hikers go about 2 mph (For Hikers in...).

dave2008 · Apr 28, 2021

Corrosive said:
The source is Vegitius, an expert on Roman military organization who wrote De Re Militari in the 4th century.

"They should march with the common military step twenty miles in five summer-hours, and with the full step, which is quicker, twenty-four miles in the same number of hours."

I trust the source.

I wouldn't. It is likely exaggerated, like many ancient historical "facts," though Romans were good with roads

Reynard · Apr 28, 2021

Tonguez said:
Thats a modern continuous hike, that doesn’t account for rest stops, scouting, setting camp or random encounters (Ie its a forced march)
\

That's what the other 8 hours of the day are for that the party isn't sleeping. 24 miles in an 8 hour day on clear terrain is not onerous. What should be noted is that anything besides clear paths can severely slow you down, even "open" fields if the grass and weeds are tall.

Faolyn · Apr 28, 2021

Darn, another thing I didn't put in the survey: @Morrus, is it too late to request Regions like Shadowed Lands (sort of like the Feywoods, but for Shadowfell/Plane of Shadow), Jungle, or Fen (along with the River I did remember to include)? I think these four are different enough from the Regions you already have to warrant inclusion.

tetrasodium · Apr 28, 2021

Morrus said:
That’s deception though not stealth.

It's definitely something yes, but fitting it to deception is almost as bad as fitting it to stealth & it doesn't often have much to do with being charismatic or dexterous. That kind of overt social engineering is more about looking the part & proactively cloaking yourself in SEP with the way you dress & who you appear to be avoids the need to switch gears to deception when the authorities show up.

This kind of stuff is often technical(dirty or hazardous trades, computers/arcana/etc) because it makes the eyes glaze over & interest wane but other times just looking too unimportant to care about works just as well.
at least the 3.5 & 5e bluff/deception

focus largely about telling a lie after being caught or hiding the truth rather than doing something proactive (probably int wis or both) to overtly & brazenly just seem to be something else making it kinda fall into a weird limbo where the skills don't really fit so it's often unconsidered since it doesn't really fit disguise well either.

This guy probably had to talk to someone to walk out with 75,000$ but this guy just walked in with a dolly hat& shirt to leave with a bunch of beer from several stores.

The Old Crow · Apr 28, 2021

tetrasodium said:
It's definitely something yes, but fitting it to deception is almost as bad as fitting it to stealth & it doesn't often have much to do with being charismatic or dexterous.

I would say it was an Intelligence check, with Deception added if proficient, to disguise the wagon.

Steampunkette · Apr 28, 2021

Combine it into a series of checks.

Deception or Disguise kit to disguise yourselves.
Stealth to hide your weapons and armor in the cart with the food/hay/whatever.
Passive Performance to look like you belong at a distance.
Active Deception if someone is talking to you and trying to look into the back of the cart.

Horwath · Apr 28, 2021

About stealth.

I would like to see stealth being usable at normal pace, but at a disadvantage.
It gives chance for trained characters to have a chance of being stealthy.