D&D 5E Giving the arcane gish an identity.

[Vaalingrade]

Making them proper stabnerds. There's a bit of toe stepping with the Monk though, isn't there?

A monk is theoretically not magic. I mean clearly they're magic, but we have to call it ki and say it's internal because 'tradition', that most worthless of parasites hanging from D&D's intestines.

However, the stabnerd is different because they are taking traditional wizard magic itself and turning it into a martial art in the same way Fighters take traditional weapons and make them into a martial art, or how druids make being a bear and make it into a martial art.

They are taking the wizard's ability to project fire and focusing it through a sword or arrow to deal cauterized wounds, or the classic dimension door and making it a blink step to take their foes off guard. Where the monk is improving their body to make a ki battery, the stabnerd has turned magic into SCIENCE! to hurt people with on a personal level.

An elegant magic for a more civilized age. They don't wreck the landscape with AoEs, they apply spells like a scalpel, calmly excising lives from places that may be looted at a later time.

 

[Undrave]

A monk is theoretically not magic. I mean clearly they're magic, but we have to call it ki and say it's internal because 'tradition', that most worthless of parasites hanging from D&D's intestines.

AH! Love it!

However, the stabnerd is different because they are taking traditional wizard magic itself and turning it into a martial art in the same way Fighters take traditional weapons and make them into a martial art, or how druids make being a bear and make it into a martial art.

I'm not sure 'Bear' is a martial art That's not what we mean when we say 'bear with me'

 

[Parmandur]

No, but this would be a REFINED version of that concept, so I don't think it matter if it wasn't as graceful in the past. The existence of the Elf just proves that there was always a wish for a character class that would mix both sword and sworcery. We just need something BETTER is all.

But the refined version of that concept already exists, the Eldritch Knight and Bladesinger. The stabnerd is a different concept, not a refinement.

 

[Parmandur]

I mean it technically does. But game mechanics have moved on since then, and smoother ways of doing things have been used since.

So when bladesinger and EK are playing as this disjointed multiclass which functions as a part wizard and then a part fighter. And then you look across at the party paladin and ranger, who are seamlessly blending magic and martial ability in the way that your gish could once do, but can no longer do. It's easy to see the frustration.

If the arcane gish had always acted like this, casting and then hitting separately, no one would be complaining. If the paladin and ranger used the cleric/druid list, people wouldn't complain about the EK/bladesinger using the wizard list, as we wouldn't know that there was a more interesting way of doing things.

But we've had two editions of DnD and two editions of pathfinder where they can blend magic into their weapon strikes. And then we've had 5e where paladin and ranger can also blend magic into their weapon strikes. And then we have that removed specifically for arcane gishes this edition, it just feels like a flat downgrade in how it plays, even if the power level comes out the same.

But the point is that the Basic Elf is a forerunner, directly, of the Eldritch Knight and Bladesinger, not the Swordmage or anything in Pathfinder.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

"Guardian?" I like! But it does, rather, put a stranglehold on what the explicit presumption of this character is to be. "I don't want to be a Guardian! I want to be a magical marauder!" Now, if you were very clear that the class name was in reference to a character who is looking to "safeguard" magic/the supernatural to any cause: from keeping arcane magic and creatures in the world to eradicating it entirely [so you are the only one left with arcane knowledge and power] are all plausible for someone calling themselves a "Guardian." I guess it could work.

I mean, it could be a guardian or sentinel of anything. A marauder chieftain could have some elite guards who combine magic and combat. Which also lines up with the Janissary angle of things. They were guardians of a sultan.

Basically, the solution is, D&D developers need to PICK something and just stick to it. Just use it over and over and over until it is just an assumed part of D&D/fantasy game-play. ...but, preferably, not something "hokey" like "Spellsword" or "Swordmage."

Honestly, even though I find the name swordmage a bit meh, it explains pretty clearly what the class does. And as it has a direct link to 4e, it begins to build a consistent identity through that.

 

[Parmandur]

A monk is theoretically not magic. I mean clearly they're magic, but we have to call it ki and say it's internal because 'tradition', that most worthless of parasites hanging from D&D's intestines.

However, the stabnerd is different because they are taking traditional wizard magic itself and turning it into a martial art in the same way Fighters take traditional weapons and make them into a martial art, or how druids make being a bear and make it into a martial art.

They are taking the wizard's ability to project fire and focusing it through a sword or arrow to deal cauterized wounds, or the classic dimension door and making it a blink step to take their foes off guard. Where the monk is improving their body to make a ki battery, the stabnerd has turned magic into SCIENCE! to hurt people with on a personal level.

An elegant magic for a more civilized age. They don't wreck the landscape with AoEs, they apply spells like a scalpel, calmly excising lives from places that may be looted at a later time.

The Monk is a short-rest recharge half-caster using the Spell-point variant. Now, for a 6E, I'd reforge the Monk as a Martial Artist (I'll go with Mystic, because BECMI), who blends magic and martial combat in Wuxia form without being so Orientialist and othering: just call the Ki points Spell slots.

 

[Stormonu]

One thing I’d like to note. I would prefer if the battlemage class wasn’t a “half-caster” - that’s one of my major annoyances with Eldritch Knight (3rd level spells at 13th level? Ick). Looking back at 1E/2E, a multiclassed F/MU would be about 1-2 levels behind a single-classed character. I think if the battlemage is a 3/4 caster, who ends up with 7th level spells max would be feasible.

(And in case anybody asks, I think the current multiclassing rules can go to hell and should be dropped for “dip” feats, like magic aptitude).

 

[Mind of tempest]

A monk is theoretically not magic. I mean clearly they're magic, but we have to call it ki and say it's internal because 'tradition', that most worthless of parasites hanging from D&D's intestines.

However, the stabnerd is different because they are taking traditional wizard magic itself and turning it into a martial art in the same way Fighters take traditional weapons and make them into a martial art, or how druids make being a bear and make it into a martial art.

They are taking the wizard's ability to project fire and focusing it through a sword or arrow to deal cauterized wounds, or the classic dimension door and making it a blink step to take their foes off guard. Where the monk is improving their body to make a ki battery, the stabnerd has turned magic into SCIENCE! to hurt people with on a personal level.

An elegant magic for a more civilized age. They don't wreck the landscape with AoEs, they apply spells like a scalpel, calmly excising lives from places that may be looted at a later time.

monk is psionic for that is an internal energy class.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

One thing I’d like to note. I would prefer if the battlemage class wasn’t a “half-caster” - that’s one of my major annoyances with Eldritch Knight (3rd level spells at 13th level? Ick). Looking back at 1E/2E, a multiclassed F/MU would be about 1-2 levels behind a single-classed character. I think if the battlemage is a 3/4 caster, who ends up with 7th level spells max would be feasible.

(And in case anybody asks, I think the current multiclassing rules can go to hell and should be dropped for “dip” feats, like magic aptitude).

Due to the way 5e has set out spellcasting progression, a '2/3' caster doesn't actually work (I tried to work it out for a homebrew class, and quickly realised that the maths doesn't line up). A full caster gains a spellcasting level every level. A half caster gains it every 2 levels. And a 1/3 caster gains it every 3 levels.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

But the refined version of that concept already exists, the Eldritch Knight and Bladesinger. The stabnerd is a different concept, not a refinement.

And imo both can exist side by side. War cleric is essentially the cleric version of a bladesinger. And yet a paladin still exists.

The fact that's it's a different concept shows exactly why people are still asking for it. Due to how subclasses are in 5e, both the bladesinger and eldritch knight are more their base class than a dedicated magic warrior.

In the current game, if I was trying to play a duskblade, magus, or swordmage, I'd pick a paldin, ranger, or hexblade. And then would have to pray that the DM would let me blank their class fluff and reflavour everything about them.

So the fact that warlocks and paladins make better swordmages than the actual arcane gish subclasses demonstrates exactly why people are still here asking for one.