TSR Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes the original interview which sparked off the controversy look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.

For reference -- TSR1 is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, TSR2 is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create Gygax Magazine and which currently publishes the Top Secret RPG, and TSR3 is the newly launched company.

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Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:

TSR - Ernie Gygax on New TSR, WotC Beefs, Trademarks, Licensees, 5E, & More

A YouTube channel, 'Live From the Bunker', interviewed Ernie Gygax about the new TSR. I've watched and decided to try to transcribe the most relevant parts of it, but the full hour-long video is below if you want to see the whole interview and full context. Ernie Gygax is one of D&D...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine...

www.enworld.org

A TSR Announces a Star Frontiers Reboot

One of the new TSRs (yes there are now two TSRs!) has announced a reboot of Star Frontiers, the sci-fi game made by the original TSR back in the 1980s. Star Frontiers was a percentile dice roleplaying game set in a galaxy with four races (Human, Dralasite, Vrusk, and Yazirian) which were re-used...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR Is Back.... Again!

TSR is back... again! A new company, using the name and logo of the original publisher of Dungeons & Dragons has just been launched, along with a limited edition new game called Giantlands, and a theme park! But first, some history! Because this isn't the first time TSR has been resurrected...

www.enworld.org

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TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.

(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).

TSR2 -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."

Gen Con -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."

Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.

GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association) -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."

Jeff Dee -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"

Jim Ward, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote Giantlands, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."

Luke Gygax -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"

TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax​

Tim Kask, an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.

"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.

But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.

That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.

Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....

... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....

... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are."

​

 

[Rob Kuntz]

It is evident from his earlier comments that Ward was referring to the Drow skin color when he said 'black people', and would be rather upset that his comment was taken as a reference to a real world ethnicity.

Because aside from the fact that fantasy races have no real world analogues, you completely disregarded the comments he made no more than some twenty seconds earlier...





And in disregarding his earlier comments, you framed what he said about the Drow in the worst context possible.

eg. (37:49)
Pundit: ..."Bloggers who will call for a boycott of D&D because in their mind Orcs are similar to black people."

Jim Ward: "By the way I find that really gross, ... I find that very objectionable."

(unfortunately Pundit then interrupts Ward before he could continue.)

We know that when it come to the idea that in D&D Orcs = Black people (the real world ethnicity) Jim Ward finds that idea "...really gross, ..." and "... very objectionable."

So he obviously believes that equating a real world ethnicity to an Evil D&D race to be gross and objectionable.

I think it is safe to say that Drow were depicted with black skin during Ward's tenure at TSR. Yet even with that black skin color the Drow were never drawn with facial features or other ethnic characteristics that resembled real world Black people.

Given his familiarity with the Drow art, and his statement about Orcs, I see no reason to believe that Jim Ward equates Evil D&D Drow with real world Black people.

So in a back and forth off the cuff conversation, and based on the comments he made just seconds before; we have every reason to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was referring to their skin color when he described the Drow as black people.

IMHO - That is what any reasonable adult would infer given the overall context of his comments from 37:49 onwards.

So let's not go imagining Jim Ward running around in a set of white sheets just yet...

I covered the origins of the drow in another topic here many months ago. They are derived from the dark elves of Norse Mythology. Used magic, dark skin, lived underground, and were turned to stone in daylight. The latter was changed, of course (no way to use them above ground if they are turning to stone), to getting minuses in sunlight. This topic also covered darkness in general, the relation of night to evil and foul creatures, highway men, bandits, etc (this goes all the way back to pre-ancient times, of course), just like in Grecian and Roman religion (the concpet of Hades and summoning him) , etc. Maybe I should write a full article on it, but Drow (known in the isolated Skand countries sometimes as "trow," a grouping type for evil spirits of various names) are directly lifted from the evil dark elves (and there were their counterparts above ground, the light elves) with no other intent in mind but to place them, like every other creature, from a fantasy/myth setting into D&D, which was a hodge-podge of these borrowings, of course.

 

[billd91]

I'm a little disappointed Wil is so cavalier about chainsaw safety but I can't find fault with his overall message.

Please, don't forget the safety goggles.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Meanwhile, over on Facebook...

Wil Wheaton, major geek icon, caught wind of this, and about two hours ago posted some... choice words I cannot repeat here. He is, um... not happy... with TSR3. At all.

Thanks Umbran,,, And thanks Wil. No beaming up for them!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

We know that when it come to the idea that in D&D Orcs = Black people (the real world ethnicity) Jim Ward finds that idea "...really gross, ..." and "... very objectionable."

So he obviously believes that equating a real world ethnicity to an Evil D&D race to be gross and objectionable.

Was he with the company when TSR produced Drums on Fire Mountain? Because there's no squinting or stretching required to see that orcs are explicitly coded as either Black people or Pacific Islanders.

EDIT: He left the company in 1996, 12 years after Drums on Fire Mountain was released.

 

[Ancalagon]

Meanwhile, over on Facebook...

Wil Wheaton, major geek icon, caught wind of this, and about two hours ago posted some... choice words I cannot repeat here. He is, um... not happy... with TSR3. At all.

I'm sure it was amusing, but he's giving them more publicity at the same time...

 

[Ulfgeir]

I'm sure it was amusing, but he's giving them more publicity at the same time...

Which is a potential problem.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm sure it was amusing, but he's giving them more publicity at the same time...

Whether to respond, and show that these views are not the mainstream, or not respond, and deprive them of oxygen, is an eternal debate. I don't think there's a blanket answer.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I think it is safe to say that Drow were depicted with black skin during Ward's tenure at TSR. Yet even with that black skin color the Drow were never drawn with facial features or other ethnic characteristics that resembled real world Black people.

Never huh?

But that is really beside the point, because that's not a chief complaint when people talk about orcs or drow and associate them with black people. The complaint is more around "why is it all the dark skinned races are evil, and all the light skinned ones are good?" Orcs? Drow? Those aren't necessarily individual things. It's when you look at things as a whole and see trends.

I'm not saying Ward is a racist, but there are legit complaints and comparisons there with D&D in general and how they historically classified and described good races vs evil races.

 

[darjr]

Regardless of original intentions with the drow or orca it’s paste time to address it and change if it’s needed. And I think it’s needed.

 

[mythago]

I covered the origins of the drow in another topic here many months ago. They are derived from the dark elves of Norse Mythology. Used magic, dark skin, lived underground, and were turned to stone in daylight. The latter was changed, of course (no way to use them above ground if they are turning to stone), to getting minuses in sunlight. This topic also covered darkness in general, the relation of night to evil and foul creatures, highway men, bandits, etc (this goes all the way back to pre-ancient times, of course), just like in Grecian and Roman religion (the concpet of Hades and summoning him) , etc. Maybe I should write a full article on it, but Drow (known in the isolated Skand countries sometimes as "trow," a grouping type for evil spirits of various names) are directly lifted from the evil dark elves (and there were their counterparts above ground, the light elves) with no other intent in mind but to place them, like every other creature, from a fantasy/myth setting into D&D, which was a hodge-podge of these borrowings, of course.

I missed your earlier discussion, so apologies if this was already discussed, but the D&D version also came with a distinctly ahistorical Evil Matriarchy gloss, of a type very much in line with 20th century SFF tropes.