D&D 5E Is Paladine Bahamut? Is Takhisis Tiamat? Fizban's Treasury Might Reveal The Answer!

According to WotC's James Wyatt, Fizban's Treasury of Dragons introduces a new cosmology for dragon gods, where the same beings, including Fizban, echo across various D&D campaign settings with alternate versions of themselves (presumably like Paladine/Bahamut, or Takhisis/Tiamat). Also... the various version can merge into one single form.

Takhisis is the five-headed dragon god of evil from the Dragonlance setting. Paladine is the platinum dragon god of good (and also Fizban's alter-ego).

Additionally, the book will contain psychic gem dragons, with stats for all four age categories of the five varieties (traditionally there are Amethyst, Crystal, Emerald, Sapphire, and Topaz), plus Dragonborn characters based on metallic, chromatic, and gem dragons.

D&D 5E - Check out Fizban's Alternate Cover!

WotC's James Wyatt talked to Polygon about Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, which also revealed the alternate cover, which you can only get from hobby stores. https://www.enworld.org/threads/fizbans-treasury-the-dragon-book-now-has-a-description-and-a-feat.681399/

www.enworld.org

D&D 5E - Fizban's Treasury: The Dragon Book Now Has A Description... And A Feat

Courtesy of Amazon, we now have a description for Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, the October D&D hardcover. The book introduces gem dragons, dragon-themed player options, and plenty of draconic lore! This joins September's The Wild Beyond the Witchlight, and November's Strixhaven: Curriculum of...

www.enworld.org

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

So I guess I’m not being clear enough on why it matters to me.

In my DL, Paladine is genderfluid and in the current era (about 100 years after the last books I read, when there were big ass dragons eating other dragons for their power or whatever) they have been seen walking the land as a young female half-elf himbo Paladin named Istara, or as a Kender acrobat/performer named Cook.

Canon isn’t important in my game right now. If we get a bunch of new 5e DL lore, that lore will impact any new DL game I start, or play in. It will effect conversations about DL. It will effect the baseline assumptions within the D&D community about DL.

And here’s the thing. My preference doesn’t impact yours, but your preference does impact mine.

Because if the worlds are separate, you can just say, “no they’re not, there is this whole layer outside of the cosmology presented in the DL books.” And you aren’t even actually contradicting anything, just adding to it. Likewise, they could present DL as a just as separate from the Great Wheel as Theros or Ravnica is, and still tell all the same stories they want to tell.

But the DL cosmology is unlikely to even survive translation into the “one multiverse with one material plane” model.

ugh, I disagree with a lot of this but mostly I am continually shocked you are unable to see the flip side and acknowledge this cuts both ways.

whatever, your right I am wrong your definitives can’t harm me but mine can harm you apparently.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Because if the worlds are separate, you can just say, “no they’re not, there is this whole layer outside of the cosmology presented in the DL books.” And you aren’t even actually contradicting anything, just adding to it. Likewise, they could present DL as a just as separate from the Great Wheel as Theros or Ravnica is, and still tell all the same stories they want to tell.

But the DL cosmology is unlikely to even survive translation into the “one multiverse with one material plane” model.

Krynn has not been separate since 2e. There are multiple Planescape products that mention Krynn or feature npcs that come from it. Heck some Krynn people showed up in Baldur's gates inside a planer device (Along with some Dark Sun characters)

 

[Parmandur]

Krynn has not been separate since 2e. There are multiple Planescape products that mention Krynn or feature npcs that come from it. Heck some Krynn people showed up in Baldur's gates inside a planer device (Along with some Dark Sun characters)

Not to.mention Spelljammer product from the 1980's!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Krynn has not been separate since 2e. There are multiple Planescape products that mention Krynn or feature npcs that come from it. Heck some Krynn people showed up in Baldur's gates inside a planer device (Along with some Dark Sun characters)

Okay? I never said otherwise?

But 5e is pushing a unified metasetting much harder and more pervasively than it has been before. Eberron was never part of the Great Wheel or other default PHB setting cosmology.

And it’s not like separate universes have to be completely separate. But DL should have it’s own cosmology wherein the gods are the gods of the entire cosmology, not shadows or echos of PHB gods, and wherein the basic layout of the planes presented in the source books for that setting are correct and complete.

 

[Alzrius]

Not to.mention Spelljammer product from the 1980's!

Well, only barely the 80s; the original Adventures in Space boxed set came out in October of '89, so most of the rest of the line was from the 90s, such as 1993's SJR7 Krynnspace.

Please note my use of affiliate links in this post.

 

[Demetrios1453]

There is an important difference, Gods in D&D, FR, GK, and PS specifically, grant spells to Divine Spellcasters and afterlives to their worshippers, Great Wyrms don't, or at least in previous editions they didn't.

Anyways I hope a Dracomaticon is one of the maguc items in the book.

Well, that was sort of my point. If 5e great wyrms (or at least some of them) are powerful enough to grant spells (which we'll have to see once the book is released), then they are more or less deities by another name. Basically ascending to great wyrm is just a step on the way to godhood. We'll see how exactly this is all hashed out in the book I guess...

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

. Eberron was never part of the Great Wheel or other default PHB setting cosmology.

Keith Baker explicitly confirmed that Eberron was always a part of the wider D&D multiverse, even when it was introduced back in 3e.

This came up when the Eberron setting book came out for 5e, so he personally confirmed it was always part of the larger setting

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I

Well, that was sort of my point. If 5e great wyrms (or at least some of them) are powerful enough to grant spells (which we'll have to see once the book is released), then they are more or less deities by another name. Basically ascending to great wyrm is just a step on the way to godhood. We'll see how exactly this is all hashed out in the book I guess...

I hope that is the direction they take it

 

[Azzy]

Hiya!

Well, everyone has a brain-fart every now and then...even Hickman and Weis.

It's the only explanation.

That statement they said is akin to Electronic Arts claiming that monetized micro-transactions aren't actually monetized micro-transactions...they are "surprise mechanics".

(for those who don't know... just DuckDuckGo it for "EA surprise mechanics")

But yeah... I've NEVER...as in, in THIS VERY THREAD, have I EVER heard that Takhisis/Paladine are 'different entities from Tiamat/Bahamut! Totally serious! I've NEVER heard anyone claim they are 'different'. Wow. Amazing, actually. Well, you learn something new every day, huh?

PS: They are the same entities. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Yeah, it's not like they have different names, different personalities, different stats, exist in a different cosmology, etc.

 

[Azzy]

Krynn has not been separate since 2e. There are multiple Planescape products that mention Krynn or feature npcs that come from it. Heck some Krynn people showed up in Baldur's gates inside a planer device (Along with some Dark Sun characters)

So. The original "platonic ideal" is that Krynn (and, by extention, Paladine & Tiamat) is seperate, and it was retconned in 2e by different authors to not be seperate. It was then re-retconned to be seperate again in 3e. I don't think 4e said anything on the matter. And in 5e, it's being re-re-retconned.