D&D 5E Why Don't We Simplify 5e?

[Ancalagon]

And I would disagree with the unspoken premise that a modernized B/x would feel like DnD to younger players, or do all the things players want dnd to do.

There are a LOT of young people in the OSR... it's not just older gamers. And B/x (or the GLOG) really feel like D&D.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

There are a LOT of young people in the OSR... it's not just older gamers. And B/x (or the GLOG) really feel like D&D.

I didn't imply there weren't. The majority of younger gamers know ADND at the oldest, and more of them mostly know 5e, which is a greatest hits of ADND through 4e.

Modern DnD isn't a game of skilled play focused dungeon crawling, so much as it is a game of OC creation and collaborative storytelling.

 

[Malmuria]

Exactly this.

I think there's a place for a 5e version where there still choices to make for character creation, but those choices get you passive ability or better use of a low-level ability.

A lot of 5e design is actually like that, at least in theory. You get bardic inspiration and higher levels just increases the die size or subclass features let you do more with it. Same with paladin's aura, or cleric channel divinity, or druid wildshape. The problem comes with the need for every level to add something and with exception-based design. So now you can use one of those resources with your reaction to give every ally within a 30' sphere advantage against charm and level x 5 temporary hit points for your prof mod in turns (made up example). And now the table is tracking 3-5 extra things every round, and every character has abilities that are like that. I have no idea how people playing with Tasha's rules keep track of anything in their game, for me it would be a nightmare

 

[THEMNGMNT]

As a longtime roleplayer, 5E hits my sweet spot for complexity. But having introduced 6 or 7 noobs to the game in recent years, about half of them struggled with the complexity. And these are not dumb people.

I think a simplified edition of D&D looks a lot like Shadow of the Demon Lord:

• Four ability scores
• Four more derived stats
• d20 and d6; no other dice
• DC10 saving throws for everything
• No initiative
• Classes designed to start simple and get more complex
• (EDIT) Skill list replaced with one background

 

[ECMO3]

Back in the D&D Next days, my impression of the new edition was that the game would be streamlined and/or have its bumps ironed out. WotC would produce something more accessible to the masses, and maybe even ride the popularity of some lighter-weight games at the time (looking at you, Savage Worlds). Crunch would be Pathfinder's thing, and more power to Paizo.

But here we are with regular rules discussions from WotC, and regular rules discussions here (now in the helpful format of How To articles). A "basic rules" document. An advanced 5e on the way from ENpublishing, and a full-on battle royale thread about the plethora of DMG options. Several threads are about adding more rules to make an aspect run better or more realistically.

And here I thought 5e was about the rulings that the DM would make, not the rules. Players make their characters from the book, and the DM does the rest, right? Why don't we see more discussions here about simplifying D&D?

If you grab the essentials kit it is pretty streamlined. If you go by the PHB and don't implement custom rules it is still pretty streamlined.

When it becomes a bit more crunchy is when you have multiclassing, feats etc.

 

[Ancalagon]

Modern DnD isn't a game of skilled play focused dungeon crawling, so much as it is a game of OC creation and collaborative storytelling.

... there are better systems than D&D for that ... Play Troika!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

... there are better systems than D&D for that ... Play Troika!

Ugh. No.

edit: And no, there aren't. There are better systems than DnD for you to do that. That's it.

 

[Yaarel]

As a longtime roleplayer, 5E hits my sweet spot for complexity. But having introduced 6 or 7 noobs to the game in recent years, about half of them struggled with the complexity. And these are not dumb people.

I think a simplified edition of D&D looks a lot like Shadow of the Demon Lord:

• Four ability scores
• Four more derived stats
• d20 and d6; no other dice
• DC10 saving throws for everything
• No initiative
• Classes designed to start simple and get more complex

I like the four ability scores because it is a more elegant design.

 

[cbwjm]

5e already seems pretty simple to me, fairly quick setting up a character and then getting started. BECMI was probably just as simple to get started, I don't recall there being a high bar for entry into that either. I'm not sure what you could do to make 5e simpler, resolution is already pretty simple, just roll a d20 and add a number to beat a target number and most modifiers to that amount to advantage or disadvantage on the roll.

 

[cbwjm]

... there are better systems than D&D for that ... Play Troika!

Troika is just a modified advanced fighting fantasy, right?