D&D (2024) Sacred Cows: Ability Scores

[Oofta]

I feel this is a misinterpretation. You are omitting my clarifying systemic vs cosmetic changes. It's only reasonable that a cosmetic change may have little to no systemic impact, such as changing the term "Strength" to "Might" for example. The systems still work the same. Changing from a Stat that leads to a bonus to just a bonus is mostly cosmetic. It's removing a step. Pruning unneeded elements can lead to a tighter game. The advantage to a tighter core game is that you can later add more elements onto it. If your core system already has unneeded bloat, when you add more systems, you increase system bloat faster.

Furthermore, while I am advocating for discussing this, you are mistaken in your assumption that this change would be my goal. I am just examining.

Finally, if we only keep a system because it is a sacred cow, yeah, cut it. Edition changes should be reevaluations.

I don't think there's much of anything inherently unique to D&D that some people wouldn't label as a sacred cow. Whether that's HP, HD, AC or ability scores. Tons of games have come and gone (not to mention editions of D&D) that got rid of some of those traditions.

No game is perfect for everyone, it's impossible. But 5E did a decent job of threading the needle of adhering to tradition while still maintaining the "feel" of older versions. There are many reasons it's the most popular TTRPG, keeping around some of those traditional cows is one of them.

 

[Professor Murder]

Side Note: I may be mistaken, but I think the "True 20" system published by Green Ronin a ways back did away with scores for just bonuses. Is there anyone here who used said system and can offer some insight?

 

[Yaarel]

On my character sheets, the bonus is the number written "big". The score is the number written "tiny".

Heh, if eliminating the score could save even more space on my character sheet, that would be even better!

 

[Steampunkette]

Killing "Sacred Cows" just to kill them is kind of pointless.

Far better to milk them. You get better use out of them that way.

Also cheese. Which is delicious.

 

[Faolyn]

How about Persuasion can be done on a number of people equal to your charisma score divided by 2 at a given time, early on, and later on it's score x2 or x3. Allowing you to start out persuading a handful of guards or many a small crowd of legbreakers, but once you've got a few levels under your belt you can persuade a mob the side of a city block to stop a lynching, like Emperor Norton the 1st, Ruler of the United States.

Meanwhile you can Perform for a crowd equal to your Charisma Score at level 1, and that number grows as you gain levels at a similar rate...

And you can only Deceive a fraction of as many people at the start of leveling.

That'd certainly make things interesting.

You'd really have to work to determine what those skills actually mean and what effects they have. Otherwise it's like, you can Perform for 12 people if you have a 12 Cha, but the other 9 people in the crowd are... not entertained? Actively heckling you? Unaffected by whatever pseudo-magical effect Perform creates?

 

[Steampunkette]

You'd really have to work to determine what those skills actually mean and what effects they have. Otherwise it's like, you can Perform for 12 people if you have a 12 Cha, but the other 9 people in the crowd are... not entertained? Actively heckling you? Unaffected by whatever pseudo-magical effect Perform creates?

Any of those things. Or just not particularly interested in your performance.

Like singing in a crowded tavern, some people stop talking and look up, others keep playing cards or chatting up the servers.

Could even create problems for those who keep talking while others are trying to listen. Depends on what you're making the perform check to -do-.

Imagine starting a bar fight as a Perform check. You sing SO PRETTY to 12 people in the crowd of 20 that the other 8 not shutting up so they can listen starts a barfight of 12 on 8 when you roll a nat 20.

It'd definitely have to be something worked at, but it's just a quick concept.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

I am almost fine with this, but how would you handle level-based stat increases?

Throw them in a dumpster and set it on fire.

 

[Bolares]

Killing "Sacred Cows" just to kill them is kind of pointless.

Far better to milk them. You get better use out of them that way.

Also cheese. Which is delicious.

but what qualifies as "just to kill them". I'd argue getting rid of unecessary extra steps in game information can be quite usefull. Most of the new players I introduced 5e to asked me why we have both a ability score and modifier, because to them it seemed like the score was just a confusing extra step for the real number.

 

[Steampunkette]

but what qualifies as "just to kill them". I'd argue getting rid of unecessary extra steps in game information can be quite usefull. Most of the new players I introduced 5e to asked me why we have both a ability score and modifier, because to them it seemed like the score was just a confusing extra step for the real number.

That's kinda the point...

If there is no reason you can choose to remove it, or to -give- it a reason.

Giving it a reason preserves the "Sacred Cow" for everyone who likes it rather than killing it off and alienating them because you don't have a specific use for it.

It also gives those new players an answer.

It's going to add more complexity, obviously, as any addition will. But here's an alternative:

Why bother having modifiers?

Just add the ability score to the roll, entirely, and raise every DC, armor class, etc. by 10 to compensate. Problem solved, right?

 

[Bolares]

Why bother having modifiers?

Just add the ability score to the roll, entirely, and raise every DC, armor class, etc. by 10 to compensate. Problem solved, right?

I think smaller numbers are preferred. If the choices is making everything a +1 or a +10, I think a +1 is better. I agree scores add more complecity and make the game more granular, and if the objective is to make the game more of that sure, keep it... expand it. But I think that's not going to be the goal, so, if we are not going to use the granular system ability scores offer, and they are just an apendage, a remnant of old editions, shouldn't we cut it?