D&D 5E Was the Rune Knight (in Tasha's) "over-nerfed"?

[Ashrym]

On topic... not over-nerfed. The runes grant a lot of passive and active abilities. The rune knight is effective.

Off topic... twilight cleric power creep seems exaggerated to me, although that might be because I'm used to playing with protector eldritch cannons already. The THPs get better at higher levels (starting with small better average at 7th level) but still costs that initial action when the cannons are usually already in play due to the longer duration, and the cannons are more versatile. Both took the winds out of the sails for the best benefit of heroism.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Do you know what else the cloud rune is good for? When your warlock friend has armor of Agathas up...

 

[ECMO3]

That same adventure I ran also had a twilight cleric PC. HOLY CRAP they are strong. The temp HP is just... too much.

I would not allow a twilight cleric in my game.

I have not found it to be that OP. It is channel divinity so it is not every battle and it is limited range.

It is the most powerful cleric and is a boon certainly.

Now the 300 foot darkvision is pretty powerful.

 

[ECMO3]

you could use it vs a monster that has a crazy high AC, is protected by spells etc, to "bounce" a very damaging attack from a PC to a minion to said monster. It's best to redirect the attack of foes, but redirecting attacks from allies could be useful in some cases...

Or if there is a single monster with very high AC you are fighting have your GWM take a swing at your wizard, then send that damage to the flying BBEG.

 

[Ancalagon]

Or if there is a single monster with very high AC you are fighting have your GWM take a swing at your wizard, then send that damage to the flying BBEG.

aaaand I wonder if you could re-direct a trip attack, if the fighter is also a battlemaster with trip.... knock them out of the sky

 

[Ancalagon]

I have not found it to be that OP. It is channel divinity so it is not every battle and it is limited range.

It is the most powerful cleric and is a boon certainly.

Now the 300 foot darkvision is pretty powerful.

About that - at level 6, you get 2 channel divinity per short rest, so it's most battles.

Second, the temp HP last. So a fight lasts 5 rounds... and then there is 5 rounds of every round people getting 1d6+6 temp HP, so almost everyone will have rolled max... and the next fight will start with 12 temp hp, so even if it's not used that battle, 12 temp HP for everyone is quite nice.

and then imagine this comboed with a summoner of some kind. The meatwall!

 

[Ashrym]

I have not found it to be that OP. It is channel divinity so it is not every battle and it is limited range.

It is the most powerful cleric and is a boon certainly.

Now the 300 foot darkvision is pretty powerful.

At 6th level channel divinity twice per short rest with an assumed 2 short rest day for up to a minute pretty much means 6 full encounters a day worth of twilight sanctuary. 9 encounters if the PC makes it to 18th level. Unless the cleric is using channel divinity to turn/destroy undead or recover spell slots, or in a long dungeon crawl, it's hard to argue that the cleric isn't capable of having twilight sanctuary up for any major encounter.

Clerics recovery channel divinity on a short rest so they can use the ability quite a bit.

I disagree on 300' darkvision being pretty powerful. I'm not convinced disadvantage on perception checks at 300' is significantly better than disadvantage on perception checks at 60', especially when the end result is often negligible if sound perception alerts the party and are thus not surprised anyway.

 

[Ashrym]

About that - at level 6, you get 2 channel divinity per short rest, so it's most battles.

Second, the temp HP last. So a fight lasts 5 rounds... and then there is 5 rounds of every round people getting 1d6+6 temp HP, so almost everyone will have rolled max... and the next fight will start with 12 temp hp, so even if it's not used that battle, 12 temp HP for everyone is quite nice.

and then imagine this comboed with a summoner of some kind. The meatwall!

Ninja'd while typing!!! ;-)

 

[Weiley31]

I low-key super like the idea that the Rune Knight can basically bounce/rebound your party's attacks or what not onto something you want dead.

 

[ECMO3]

About that - at level 6, you get 2 channel divinity per short rest, so it's most battles.

Second, the temp HP last. So a fight lasts 5 rounds... and then there is 5 rounds of every round people getting 1d6+6 temp HP, so almost everyone will have rolled max... and the next fight will start with 12 temp hp, so even if it's not used that battle, 12 temp HP for everyone is quite nice.

and then imagine this comboed with a summoner of some kind. The meatwall!

Meh.

The only people who get hps every turn during the fight are those who get hit. The others just get an extra 1 or 2 if they roll higher the following turn.

As for "lasting" hps, a casting of aid at 3rd level is about as many "lasting" hps, but they are actual hps, generally
last longer and stack.

I have played with a twilight cleric and I did not find it as overpowered as people claim. Powerful yes, extraordinary no and there are more effective ways to buff yourself. The biggest benefit of the channel diviinity is it is not concentration so you can combine it with something comparable.

I don't think it is as strong or disruptive a subclass as a Fey Wanderer or an optimized Bladesinger. An llth level fey wanderer every single turn can take an action, have his Fey (and he can have up to four of them) each make another attacks and each Fey cast a charm and can do that every turn, going Nova that is 6 attacks and 4 charms every single turn, while running a concentration spell on top of that to boot. They can do all of that every single turn, and the charms last for the battle or until they get damaged with no follow on save every turn. If they get lucky and save against the initial Charm the Ranger can redirect one a turn using beguiling twist. Against a single boss man you can attack him 3 times then charm him mutliple times so he can't attack you until he is damaged and do it again next turn (damaging him first to break the charm, then charming him again).