D&D 5E Fizban's Treasury Dragons Ranked By Challenge Rating

WotC has been sending out previews of Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, due out next month, to folks on Twitter. Amongst those are art pieces and other items.

By Challenge Rating the dragons in the book are:

• Ancient crystal (19)
• Ancient topaz (20)
• Ancient emerald (21)
• Ancient moonstone (21)
• Ancient sapphire (22)
• Elder brain dragon (22)
• Ancient amethyst (23)
• Ancient dragon turtle (24)
• Gem greatwyrm (26)
• Chromatic greatwyrm (27)
• Metallic greatwyrm (28)
• Apects of Bahamut and Tiamat (30)

Interestingly, it appears that the great wyrm category is divided into three -- gem, chromatic, metallic -- rather than by each dragon type.

There's also an alphabetical list of all 20 dragon types in the book:

• Amethyst
• Black
• Blue
• Brass
• Bronze
• Copper
• Crystal
• Deep
• Dragon turtle
• Emerald
• Faerie
• Gold
• Green
• Moonstone
• Red
• Sapphire
• Shadow
• Silver
• Topaz
• White

 

[Dausuul]

The worldbuilding of 4e was designed for two purposes: to create a coherent D&D setting for branding purposes (D&D consists of these things...) and to make a setting that centered entirely around adventurers and the adventures they do. I see both of these as artificial and crass. In my opinion, it is worldbuilding for the wrong reasons, building the world around the game instead of the game around the world.

Oh, please. You know where Planescape came from? Zeb Cook was assigned to create "a complete campaign world (not just a place to visit), survivable by low-level characters, as compatible with the old Manual of the Planes as possible, filled with a feeling of vastness without overwhelming the referee, distinct from all other TSR campaigns, free of the words 'demon' and 'devil' and explainable to Marketing in 25 words or less."

So let's not talk about "artificial and crass" motivations for worldbuilding. Just say you don't like the result and leave it at that.

 

[Azzy]

Your list is wrong the Metallic Steel Dragon's introduction wasn't actually in 4e, it's just that 4e retconned the Waterdeep Dragon into being a Metallic Dragon, Steel Dragon.

cough It was originally the Greyhawk dragon, appearing first in the 1988's Greyhawk Adventures.

* ninja'd *

 

[Micah Sweet]

Oh, please. You know where Planescape came from? Zeb Cook was assigned to create "a complete campaign world (not just a place to visit), survivable by low-level characters, as compatible with the old Manual of the Planes as possible, filled with a feeling of vastness without overwhelming the referee, distinct from all other TSR campaigns, free of the words 'demon' and 'devil' and explainable to Marketing in 25 words or less."

So let's not talk about "artificial and crass" motivations for worldbuilding. Just say you don't like the result and leave it at that.

I don't like the result, because I feel it is artificial and crass. I'm allowed both to have opinions and to have reasons for them.

Also, notice that one of the requirements for Planescape was "as compatible with the old Manual of the Planes as possible". Planescape, as I mentioned above, was additive. It sucks that they had to remove "demon" and "devil" at the time, but I think they came up with a cool substitute when required.

 

[dave2008]

The worldbuilding of 4e was designed for two purposes: to create a coherent D&D setting for branding purposes (D&D consists of these things...) and to make a setting that centered entirely around adventurers and the adventures they do. I see both of these as artificial and crass. In my opinion, it is worldbuilding for the wrong reasons, building the world around the game instead of the game around the world.

I disagree with your assessment on several points. But there is no value in arguing it. We can both be happy with the fact that we are correct in our own minds.

 

[Parmandur]

Oh, please. You know where Planescape came from? Zeb Cook was assigned to create "a complete campaign world (not just a place to visit), survivable by low-level characters, as compatible with the old Manual of the Planes as possible, filled with a feeling of vastness without overwhelming the referee, distinct from all other TSR campaigns, free of the words 'demon' and 'devil' and explainable to Marketing in 25 words or less."

So let's not talk about "artificial and crass" motivations for worldbuilding. Just say you don't like the result and leave it at that.

Actually, I'd day the flaw with the Nentir Vale and Dawn War stuff was being insufficiently commercial.

 

[Dausuul]

Actually, I'd day the flaw with the Nentir Vale and Dawn War stuff was being insufficiently commercial.

In what way?

 

[Micah Sweet]

In what way?

Are you responding one of my posts? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Parmandur]

In what way?

It was designed to have a coherent and logical mythos, because that is what the creators wanted to try, rather than by paying attention to what users wanted from the game. There is a design principle that really summarizes everything about what happpend with 4E "You [the designer] are not the user."

With 5E, they did the work to find out what people by and large wanted, hence the return to the illogical and silly (hence fun for a game) Great Wheel and the Smorgasbord of the Forgotten Realms.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Are you responding one of my posts? I'm not sure what you mean.

No, they responded to @Parmandur ’s post about Nentir Vale / Dawn War being designed for world building reasons and not commercial reasons. Which was a response to your contrary post

 

[Parmandur]

No, they responded to @Parmandur ’s post about Nentir Vale / Dawn War being designed for world building reasons and not commercial reasons. Which was a response to your contrary post

Whoever you are talking with might not be privy to thst context.