D&D 5E Do you like or dislike Song & Steeal Dragons being demoted to Folklore?

[Urriak Uruk]

Lore reason are reason enough, period. And they could have done like DotMM and made them a template.

D&D is a game, not a history book. If you need lore go to the wiki.

Redundant statblocks are not useful to me.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

TSR is defunct, WotC has no legal obligation to inherit that deal.

If this part is even true. Seems extremely weird any company would agree to "yeah we'll publish a book for you FOREVER."

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If this part is even true. Seems extremely weird any company would agree to "yeah we'll publish a book for you FOREVER."

TSR made some extremely weird business decisions. That's why they are defunct.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

TSR made some extremely weird business decisions. That's why they are defunct.

Yeah, true. I'll add, I think the deal as I heard worded was that they needed to publish a FR book (not a novel, just any book) per year, and 5E has not violated that.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah, true. I'll add, I think the deal as I heard worded was that they needed to publish a FR book (not a novel, just any book) per year, and 5E has not violated that.

They don't need to though - companies simply don't inherit that stuff. Look at the issue of Disney not paying royalties to writers (most notably Alan Dean Foster) who have written for franchises Disney later bought. I believe they eventually accepted a moral responsibility, but legally, Disney was right - the company that owes you money does not exist.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

D&D is a game, not a history book. If you need lore go to the wiki.

Redundant statblocks are not useful to me.

A template isn't redundant. A lore is the bed Rick the game is made from.

 

[LordEntrails]

I always thought they were silly. To me Song and Steel are life choices that dragons may make. They are not species of dragons. Just like a human or an elf can chose to be a blacksmith or inventor or singer; a dragon can chose to disguise itself and take up the role of a song or steel or x.

So maybe its more of a dragon "class", or a template or something, but not a base type/race/specie.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I always thought they were silly. To me Song and Steel are life choices that dragons may make. They are not species of dragons. Just like a human or an elf can chose to be a blacksmith or inventor or singer; a dragon can chose to disguise itself and take up the role of a song or steel or x.

So maybe its more of a dragon "class", or a template or something, but not a base type/race/specie.

Except no they had different physiology, like different breath weapons and other stuff.

 

[Scribe]

This isn't just theory craft.

I used a steel dragon in my old AD&D Planescape campaign who masqueraded as a gnomish antiquities dealer, showing up in various cities to barter and swap lore with the PCs. He ended up publishing one PC's book on languages. There was always some hint at his draconic nature, like steel-grey eyes, a scale pattern to his doublet, a scarf seeming to be made of steel mesh, oddities so ancient they far eclipsed the gnomish lifespan, instantly recognizing the various types of steel (cold, Baatorian green, Abyssal bloodiron, etc), a coiled dragon ring, off-handedly referencing some event with firsthand intimacy that occurred ages ago, etc.

Part of the story arc was the PCs were trying to shift a town that was slipping across the Outlands (and towards the Abyss) back into Arcadia. One of the sub-quests to achieve this goal involved enticing lawful merchants to resume trading activity with the town. The PCs decided to convince their "gnomish" friend to do business with the town, and that's when his backstory was revealed about having a disagreement with his draconic brethren that led to him traveling the planes, studying humanoid cultures in hopes of creating a utopia to prove his jaded brethren wrong. The PCs ended up debating philosophy with two elder dragons to convince them how this town would be one form of utopia once it transitioned back to Arcadia. It was a lot of fun playing with the "we know he's a dragon, but no one is coming out and saying it." And the dragon sibling "politics" was a hoot

Just want to say, thanks for sharing.

A great example, and Planescape related.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

A template isn't redundant. A lore is the bed Rick the game is made from.

Except the template for Steel dragons isn't a template, it's just a silver dragon with an acid breath instead. It's terrible content to waste pages on.

And although I think lore can be useful, if it's paired with bad rules it's completely useless. Your analogy is backwards; lore depends on good rules to sustain the game, otherwise the system (and lore) will be abandoned by the playerbase.

Anyway, "I need this because a previous edition's book had lore on it" is not a smart way to expand a game.