TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are). The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time...

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.


The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).


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The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".


TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".


TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.


 

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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Again circle logic,
That's not the term (it's "circular reasoning"), and this is not an example of circular reasoning. Additionally, this is the fallacy fallacy, and a strawman argument (by misrepresenting my post as circular reasoning). A circular argument would be "Justin Lanasa is bad, so anything he makes is bad, because he's a bad person". We are not making that argument (or any like that), so it's not circular reasoning.
the idea that putting up a defense against an accusation is in itself am admission of guilt is patiently absurd.
Okay . . . but no one is saying that. I said "if you're defending these guys, you're on the wrong side of the argument". That's neither circular nor "absurd", due to all of the crazy and awful things that we've seen these guys do over the past half-a-year, with their statements about LGBTQ+ people, neurodivergent people, women, WotC, and many others. If you're defending those guys in this ridiculous lawsuit, you're objectively in the wrong. That's what I'm saying.
But clearly you can't be reasoned on this issue, with so respectfully I shall not waste any of my time. Have a wonderful day.
. . . You just "wasted your time" writing this response, so this statement is a bit of a nothing-burger. Stop replying all you want, no one's forcing you to. However, trying to say "your post is absurd and circular" to make a shot as you leave the discussion is not "avoiding wasting your time" on this discussion.
 
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CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Yikes. The comment section on their IndieGoGo page is really, really weird. A handful of people are ranting about how popular culture has changed over the years without their permission, and it will make you cringe. These three people are also blaming Wizards of the Coast for all kinds of terrible things like:
  • Being the worst people on the planet (present company excluded, of course)
  • Forcing people to...change? Somehow? It's not really clear.
  • Forcing people to play Magic: the Gathering.
  • Having an "agenda" to make money (or a social media presence? again, it's not very clear)
  • being culturally relevant,
  • not being culturally relevant,
  • publishing new material,
  • publishing Magic: the Gathering cards,
  • and letting your buddy bring his girlfriend to the game. (Not kidding.)
At least, I think that is what they are blaming WotC for...it's an Internet comment section, so clarity isn't a priority. One thing is certain, though: nobody in that comment section is worked up over libel or defamation. It's all about hating WOKENESS (typed with the all-important all-caps.)

Seriously, what the actual hell is going on over there at Clownfish?
 
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J.Quondam

CR 1/8
Yikes. The comment section on their IndieGoGo page is really, really weird. A handful of people are ranting about how popular culture has changed over the years without their permission, and it will make you cringe. These three people are also blaming Wizards of the Coast for all kinds of terrible things like:
  • Being the worst people on the planet (present company excluded, of course)
  • Forcing people to...change? Somehow? It's not really clear.
  • Forcing people to play Magic: the Gathering.
  • Having an "agenda" (or a social media presence? again, it's not very clear)
  • being culturally relevant,
  • not being culturally relevant,
  • publishing new material,
  • publishing Magic: the Gathering cards,
  • and letting your buddy bring his girlfriend to the game. (Not kidding.)
Seriously, what the actual hell is going on over there at Clownfish?
Yeah, that "bring your girlfriend to the game" one was... sad? memorable? hilarious? That same guy has posted about half the comments over there, and he chipped in only one dollar specifically so he could post comments, so he says. So... I really can't tell if the guy is legit or just trolling them?
 

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
Well no the goal of ignoring people isn't to make them change their behavior (that doesn't tend to work) but it reduces the perceived importance of their message in society, and therefore reduces the number of other people who become attracted to that idea purely because it's perceived as the popular anti-establishment position.
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that; these groups only fester more in darkness, and the internet has only exacerbated the problem.

The best disinfectant is sunlight.
 

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that; these groups only fester more in darkness, and the internet has only exacerbated the problem.

The best disinfectant is sunlight.
I'm not so sure at this stage. Sunlight in the form of sites like 4chan and other sites and groups have lead to this becoming extremely common and amplified. People have tried to 'debate' with people who only want to hate and hurt others, and are not interested in debate.

The best disinfectant is shutting down these hate groups, defunding and deligitmising them, and ensuring democracy is strong and vigilant enough to ensure they do not threaten people again.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Sir Lord Justin Lasagna please know that you have the utmost support from checks notes VictorVonCDoomcock.
DoomCock. That's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Long time.

One of the original members of the Fandom Menace who spent a LOT of time railing against all manner of "Woke" genre media. Guy has generated a lot of YouTube adbucks peddling conspiracy theories, hit pieces and complete "out of his Kiester" reporting about Marvel, Star Wars, DC/Snyder, and other fan outrage/anti-woke videos.

I'm 100% not surprised he's using this as a tool for relevancy after his "inside sources" were wrong about Kathleen Kennedy's imminent firing...
 



Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
some of the quotes I'm seeing on youtube are wild

WotC is probably terrified Earnie will outshine their creatively bankrupt writers, given how strongly they're reacting

So first of all, if Earnie makes good books, they will sell, and will be competition. There is already a lot of competition, what's one more author? And is Earnie a proven designer?

Second, "how strongly they are reaction" - has WotC done anything? Are we in the same reality?
 

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