D&D General "Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D

[Aldarc]

Thing is though, they have been revised, and continue to be revised. But I think the difference here is that aside from the racist stereotypes, they are good. Comic strips of lower quality simply haven't been reprinted and have disappeared.

We are not arguing whether or not these comics are "good." The pertinent issue is about possible, relevant influences on Bruce Heard.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

We are not arguing whether or not these comics are "good." The pertinent issue is about possible, relevant influences on Bruce Heard.

Yeah, and I'm extremely wary of making comments on racism in continental Europe at a time when EU passport holders are coming under attack in the UK.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yeah, and I'm extremely wary of making comments on racism in continental Europe at a time when EU passport holders are coming under attack in the UK.

I think it's uncontroversial to say that in the 1980s certain forms of racism seem to have been more publicly acceptable in certain parts of the continent than they were in the UK, but whether that meant the people in general were any more racist is very much open to debate given stuff which was happening in the UK at the time (the BNP etc.). Certainly I don't think anyone is suggesting Western and Northern Europe is, as a whole, "more racist" than the UK in the present day.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

The Asterix one is particularly messed-up because IIRC that's not from the '80s, that's way later, like the '90s or something, and should obviously never have happened.

Fun(well not really) fact, they made a new movie about the two Gauls in the land of First Nations in 1994...and its still pretty bad!

The working title is Asterix et Obelix en Amérique (in America), but the title in English is (I s**t you not) Asterix and Obelix conquer America!

 

[Aldarc]

Yeah, and I'm extremely wary of making comments on racism in continental Europe at a time when EU passport holders are coming under attack in the UK.

This seems like a non-issue. I think that you can make comments on the issue of racism in these comics without having to make any sort of attack on EU passport holders in the UK.

 

[Maxperson]

Regardless of what the technical term is, it's a fact that Wizards owns TSR and all its assets. Which means that Wizards owns all of TSR "debits" and moral karma as well. When a company buys another company, they don't just buy the benefits! They also gain the karmic responsibilities.

No. That's not how that works. Just as I'm not responsible for things my parents have done, WotC is not responsible for what TSR did. Unlike your proof about GAZ10 being racist, your proclamation that WotC owns TSRs design choices and monetary gain related to GAZ10 is unsubstantiated opinion.

WotC owns their choice to make the PDF available and needs to apologize for doing that and should probably pull the product if they aren't going to change it. That's all they need to do.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Eh, if they're making money on it, they've got to own it.

 

[Maxperson]

Eh, if they're making money on it, they've got to own it.

They've probably made a pittance and they've got to own the amount they received, which is minimal. An apology and removal of the document is sufficient.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Would much be lost if some of these problematic works were just discontinued? No warning labels, no ammendments. Just removed?

It seems to me that with the same effort that would go into 'fixing' these works, you could create something entirely new that has none of the baggage.

I suspect it depends on the specific product. There are products that are probably no loss, but there are also ones that provide good historical context or other useful materials for people trying to run in settings that are no longer supported.

Its easy to underestimate just how broad the problems with some older material are; some are worse than others, but you'd have to pick through carefully to avoid some casual racism, stereotypes or casual sexism in older material. Its much like the fiction it was based on in that way.

(Though I agree with Dannyalcatraz; its pie in the sky to expect that Hasbro is going to dedicate the resources to do much here. They'd just remove the PDFs again before they've bother).

 

[MGibster]

No. That's not how that works. Just as I'm not responsible for things my parents have done, WotC is not responsible for what TSR did. Unlike your proof about GAZ10 being racist, your proclamation that WotC owns TSRs design choices and monetary gain related to GAZ10 is unsubstantiated opinion.

WotC owns their choice to make the PDF available and needs to apologize for doing that and should probably pull the product if they aren't going to change it. That's all they need to do.

A few years back the common refrain was that it was okay to like problematic things just so long as you recognized what made them problematic. But apparently this isn’t good enough these days. Maybe, I don’t know, they can just keep it available for those who want a copy of GAZ10 and the rest of us just don’t buy it.