D&D General "Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D

[Ruin Explorer]

Rapid edition cycle didn't help people weren't sick of 3.5 enough in 2007 when 4E was announced.

I agree with this bit, but it strongly supports my point that any D&D coming out then would have suffered.

Critical Role started playing 4E and I don't think it hurt them. The reason they got big wasn't the edition they were playing, it was the cultural zeitgeist.

 

[MGibster]

I'm not a fan of Lovecraft and his work has always been rather impenetrable to me. I was introduced to his writings after playing the RPG - which was, and remains, enormous fun - and I think that probably also shaped my understanding. But I don't find him remotely "scary."

I don't really find him all that scary either. I'm fairly comfortable with the idea that the universe is indifferent to my fate, that I'm insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and I don't personally relate to the position that ignorance is good and knowledge of the true nature of the universe will drive us mad. But it's kind of fun to think, what if?

So I suppose my overall thoughts with regard to Lovecraft are ... Meh... (body of writings) and Ew! (political views).

He did become a socialist democrat later in life and some of his feelings regarding race softened a bit.

 

[David Howery]

I personally don't find Lovecraft's stories very scary, and find it hard to imagine that anyone else would. But I'm not sure it's all about the meme. There are some interesting ideas in his work. But I find the actual writing to mostly be an incredible slog.

I'm the same... I always sum him up as 'great ideas, kind of a turgid writer, despicable politics'. That said, there are a couple of his stories that I found to be fascinating, particularly "At the Mountains of Madness"...

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I agree with this bit, but it strongly supports my point that any D&D coming out then would have suffered.

Critical Role started playing 4E and I don't think it hurt them. The reason they got big wasn't the edition they were playing, it was the cultural zeitgeist.

The home game started as a 4E one shot, but most of the campaign until the streaming show began was Pathfinder. Critical Role the show has always used 5E.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

Concerning Lovecraft's own writing, the only one I really like is The Color Out of Space. Essentially a meteor that shines a color never seen before somehow mutates the surrounding area and creatures in horrific ways, destroying a farmer's land and family, before the apparently living color departs by shooting off into space.

A Cosmic Horror serialized podcast I would recommend is The Magnus Archives, which ended recently. It starts out as a series of seemingly unconnected impossible and disturbing events before revealing its own unique mythos.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Junji Ito, a Japanese author of Cosmic Horror manga, has also gone from obscure in the early 2010's to having hardcover releases of his work and related merch in the U.S., and an animated adaptation of his series Uzumaki is in the works. He's also noted Lovecraft as a significant influence on his work and included a watercolor painting of him in a recent artbook.

I own a comic book store and I can attest to this - Junji Ito has grown in popularity to the point where I sell more of his stuff than any other "manga". It's quite a phenomenon.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I own a comic book store and I can attest to this - Junji Ito has grown in popularity to the point where I sell more of his stuff than any other "manga". It's quite a phenomenon.

Have you read any of his stuff, out of curiosity? Some of the books are compilations of one-off stories, some are episodic but feature different characters encountering the same being (such as Tomie and Lovesickness), and others follow the same protagonists caught up in an unfolding scenario (such as Uzumaki, Gyo, Hellstar Remina, and Sensor).

And then there's Cat Diary, which is just the guy parodying his own work by drawing comics about stuff his cats do and trying to render it as creepy as possible.

I think it helps that, unlike Lovecraft, Ito is actually a happy and well-adjusted guy who doesn't take himself too seriously and will sometimes inject elements into his stories that are more absurd than horrific.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Have you read any of his stuff, out of curiosity? Some of the books are compilations of one-off stories, some are episodic but feature different characters encountering the same being (such as Tomie), and others follow the same protagonists caught up in an unfolding scenario (Uzumaki, Gyo, Sensor).

And then there's Cat Diary, which is just the guy parodying his own work by drawing comics about stuff his cats do and trying to render it as creepy as possible.

I've read one or two, and flipped through them. I like his art, for sure.

One of my employees has been collecting them all for years and years, and might be responsible for some of his success at my store, but there's also a lot of people buying them in the past year or two who have definitely never spoken to that employee about it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think you hit upon the key to the "Lovecraft obsession." We all have a "little lovecraft in us," (that would be a great tee-shirt!). We all have an "Other" that we fear and "otherize." It may not be a race or ethnicity or gender, like is easy to see and malign (whether rightfully or not) in folks such as HP. It may be an ideological orientation or political affiliation or other identity that we find disconcerting, or simply the folks that we don't like, for whatever reason.

I think that is why his influence is so profound: he palpable depicts in his work--and evidently through his very personhood--an aspect of ourselves that, while hopefully most/all of us in this thread don't embody to a degree comparable to him, we all still have. We all have our own version of the "Other," but sometimes it is less easy to designate what it is for ourself. I think sometimes, the Other are those who we see as worse about othering than we are!

I've seen a fairly compelling argument that almost all (I'd go as far as to say all, but I'd be willing to listen to an argument there's exceptions) horror is based in confronting dark elements of our own natures to one degree or another. That's why its sometimes easy to see some sorts of popular horror as stand-ins for fears about certain types of groups (vampire and zombie fiction come to mind here). I think the important element is to acknowledge that relationship but not embrace it (i.e. not project it on the actual groups involved) but some people consider it toxic in and of itself, and I'm not going to tell them that for them they're wrong.

 

[Thomas Shey]

That’s a great summary, but it does miss a thing, I think. His influence means that his legacy matters, and thus has to be challenged and put into context just the same as if he were politically or socially important.

Sure. But it also means there are a wide range of how people do or don't want to do that, and that creates conflict that is partly or entirely outside the question of Lovecraft's dubious racial attitudes.

I mean, its kind of a trite thing, but there's a phrase people really aren't in as much agreement about as some suggest, and its the source of a lot of conflict here: "Its okay to like problematic things." Its abundantly clear that, over and above questions about whether something is problematic, people don't even agree on the "okay" part.