D&D General "Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D

[Faolyn]

That's my question too.

What is the value of calling the brain-eating monsters evil?

Their very existence is antagonistic to our own. Where humans and illithids meet, there WILL be conflict.

What is the point of adding the artificial conflict of Good vs Evil when you already have predator and prey?

It really depends on if the DM wants there to be Cosmic Good and Cosmic Evil (or Cosmic Law and Cosmic Chaos). If the DM does, then differentiating between evil and Evil is useful for the conflicts in that game. Mind Flayers may very well have a role in one of those sides.

If the DM doesn't want there to be Comsic Alignments, then as you say, the conflict is between predator and prey. With the added bonus of mind flayers not evolving in the game world's reality (usually, at least) and therefore being not only a predator, but a dangerous invasive species as well.

 

[Aldarc]

Cats are not, in fact, evil. Many of the behaviors folks use to claim they are come from putting the cat in an environment that isn't reasonably suited to it. Basically, if you expect a cat to be a dog, you will have problems, yes, but they are hardly the cat's fault, as they aren't the ones with the thumbs in the relationship.

When asked what Melnibonéan society and psychology was like, Moorcock said that they were like cats.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If the DM doesn't want there to be Comsic Alignments, then as you say, the conflict is between predator and prey. With the added bonus of mind flayers not evolving in the game world's reality (usually, at least) and therefore being not only a predator, but a dangerous invasive species as well.

Well, then…here’s a website with an idea: Eat The Invaders — Fighting Invasive Species, One Bite At A Time!

If they try to eat you, you try to eat them right back!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The question is: If Mind Flayers must eat sapient creatures' brains to survive, does that make them Evil?

And it is a pointless question. This is (one reason) why I want to nuke alignment from the orbit. It causes any discussion about building conflicts in D&D devolve into inane "are bears evil, yes or no?"

 

[Remathilis]

If a mind-flayer is not evil for being an obligate sapient carnivore, then it should reason there would be no objections to a group of mind-flayers opening a farm where they breed and raise thier own sapient beings in pens until subtlety intelligent and then turning into food to sustain themselves on. If all they require is the brain, perhaps they could even sell of the excess meat to other carnivores like ogres. Waste not!

Surely no one finds such a farm objectionable, right?

 

[Mind of tempest]

If a mind-flayer is not evil for being an obligate sapient carnivore, then it should reason there would be no objections to a group of mind-flayers opening a farm where they breed and raise thier own sapient beings in pens until subtlety intelligent and then turning into food to sustain themselves on. If all they require is the brain, perhaps they could even sell of the excess meat to other carnivores like ogres. Waste not!

Surely no one finds such a farm objectionable, right?

given the controversy surrounding an octopus farm, it is likely that objections would still be a thing.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If a mind-flayer is not evil for being an obligate sapient carnivore, then it should reason there would be no objections to a group of mind-flayers opening a farm where they breed and raise thier own sapient beings in pens until subtlety intelligent and then turning into food to sustain themselves on. If all they require is the brain, perhaps they could even sell of the excess meat to other carnivores like ogres. Waste not!

Surely no one finds such a farm objectionable, right?

Objectionable to whom? To most mind flayers, probably not. And just like we don't care about the opinions of pigs, why should they care about opinions of lower life forms? In fact these mind flayers would probably see themselves as pretty charitable, as they sustain lower life forms such as ogres as by-product of their farming operation.

Like sure, farming things for food seems pretty evil, if you're the one one the menu. But that's why it is relative.

 

[Remathilis]

Objectionable to whom? To most mind flayers, probably not. And just like we don't care about the opinions of pigs, why should they care about opinions of lower life forms? In fact these mind flayers would probably see themselves as pretty charitably, as they sustain lower life forms such as ogres as by-product of their farming operation.

Like sure, farming things for food seems pretty evil, if you're one one the menu. But that's why it is relative.

To it's neighbors. The humans, elves and orcs who live in the towns and farms nearby. The Kings and rulers whose kingdoms contain said farms.

Part of the analogy with pigs falls apart when you realize other pigs (or any other animal) isn't capable for protesting a farm. They don't take up arms to free thier fellow barnyard animals. They don't send word from the pig council to cease and desist.

So I'll ask again, if a farm collective of mind flayers set up a sapient farm in the outskirts of Waterdeep (or Baldur's Gate, or Ten Towns, or...) No one would have a reasonable moral objection to this farm operating any more than the wild boar population has objection to a pig farm? No NIMBY objections? We're good?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

To it's neighbors. The humans, elves and orcs who live in the towns and farms nearby. The Kings and rulers whose kingdoms contain said farms.

Right. So that's just like their opinion.

Part of the analogy with pigs falls apart when you realize other pigs (or any other animal) isn't capable for protesting a farm. They don't take up arms to free thier fellow barnyard animals. They don't send word from the pig council to cease and desist.

Do you think pigs want to be killed? Do you actually have reasonable doubt about this? You simply have arbitrarily demanded that they communicate this desire via means you know them to be incapable of. Similarly mind flayers can deem any communication not done via telephatic hive-mind pointless mooing.

So I'll ask again, if a farm collective of mind flayers set up a sapient farm in the outskirts of Waterdeep (or Baldur's Gate, or Ten Towns, or...) No one would have a reasonable moral objection to this farm operating any more than the wild boar population has objection to a pig farm? No NIMBY objections? We're good?

I'm sure they would object. And they would object just the same if mind flayers weren't objectively evil, and just hungry. There is conflict of interests, but alignment is just a distraction.

 

[Cadence]

If a mind-flayer is not evil for being an obligate sapient carnivore, then it should reason there would be no objections to a group of mind-flayers opening a farm where they breed and raise thier own sapient beings in pens until subtlety intelligent and then turning into food to sustain themselves on. If all they require is the brain, perhaps they could even sell of the excess meat to other carnivores like ogres. Waste not!

Surely no one finds such a farm objectionable, right?

Aren't most planets in the prime material plane just free range farms run by the Illithid? The food at least deserves quality of life before being eaten. I'm pretty sure some of the food calls that "humane treatment" ... as long as they aren't the food.