D&D General "Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D

[Mordhau]

Ferengi were characterized as possessing demonic, exaggerated features and embodying wanton greed.
They were portrayed as cowardly.
They were depicted as a misogynistic race, evoking Nazi portrayals of Jews in the early 20th c.
285 Rules of Acquisition; 613 commandments in the Torah
Women excluded from commerce; women traditionally excluded from Torah study
Head coverings
Ferengi prohibit autopsies. So does Judaism.
Ferengi mostly played by Jewish actors.

Some of those things are remarkably specific. Especially the one about autopsies. It's actually hard to see how that comes about by accident or even unconsciously.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I always though that the Ferengi were the Farangi, a word used by the Persians and Mughal India to describe the European traders they were dealing with (given the greed and behaviour was similar). Also prohibition of autopsies was also a Christian thing. That is why body snatching from graves was a thing.

 

[Helldritch]

When you look with the lens of whatever you want to see; you will inevitably find it. No matter how stretched the truth will be. No matter the author's intentions were conscious or not. If you want to prove that something is secretly saying something it isn't or was not even meant to say, you will be able to make it say so.

This is why I find these exercises somewhat stale. Hitler was never quiet about his hate of the Jews. When a political body strikes at some minority or simply an other country/culture, they are never using disguises. They are usually quite straight forward. A true racist will show its colour quite fast. Be it discomfort or evident aversion, it will show.

And as unfortunate as it is, any literary trope can be ascribed negatively to one culture or the other. At some point, the only way to be sure, is to ask the author. In the case of HP, it was clearly not the intention. Same with Star Trek and the Ferengi. They are a parody of capitalism, no matter its ethnicity. The Ferengies are capitalism pushed to its extreme limit.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That's right folks, ignore all systematic or normalized racism because it can be explained away with Rorschach tests.

 

[Voadam]

Watto was a greedy slave-trader with a large, hooked nose and accent that was a cross between Middle-Eastern and Lower East Side. If you can't see this one, then I don't know what to say.

He struck me as evoking specifically Arab stereotypical traits/caricature. Arabs are also a Semitic ethnicity and share a lot of historical and cultural background with Jews so there can be a lot of overlap but the prominence of the slave owning/trading and a desert street market context seems to point more at Arab. And the evil Arab is a trope.

 

[Maxperson]

Ferengi were characterized as possessing demonic, exaggerated features and embodying wanton greed.

As are lots of beings in mythology and fantasy.

They were portrayed as cowardly.

Ditto

They were depicted as a misogynistic race, evoking Nazi portrayals of Jews in the early 20th c.

Correlation does not equal causation.

285 Rules of Acquisition; 613 commandments in the Torah

10 commandments of Christianity and 282(much closer) laws in Hammurabi's Code

Women excluded from commerce; women traditionally excluded from Torah study

Christianity(some denominations), Islam(unsure if like Judaism, there are denominations that don't), Judaism(orthodox), Hinayana Buddhism,

Head coverings

Christianity, Judaism and Islam all use these

Ferengi prohibit autopsies. So does Judaism.

So does Greek Orthodoxy, Shintoism, and Zoroastrianism. It's extremely distasteful to Hinduism and Rastafarianism.

Ferengi mostly played by Jewish actors.

Hollywood has a LOT of Jews. Multiple members of my family among them.

Watto was a greedy slave-trader with a large, hooked nose and accent that was a cross between Middle-Eastern and Lower East Side. If you can't see this one, then I don't know what to say.

Again, some correlation does not equal causation.

It takes a lot more than just being able to point to some similarities to show antisemitism.

 

[Remathilis]

It's the ultimate expression of the disease, honestly.

The whole point of labeling things 'evil' is to make hurting justified. The BoXD's just abandon all pretense and revel in the garbage soup that is the history of alignment with Paladins detecting evil and attaching everything that pings, the aligned damage spells that waste neutral people just because they're not wearing the right gang colors, Gary's advice to kill any redeemed villains so they can't backslide, and much, much more.

You're so close...

The point of labeling things "evil" is to justify killing things and taking thier stuff. It's the ultimate expression of vigilante justice, conquest of the righteous and night making right.

You kill orcs because they are irredeemably evil. They worship Heathen gods, have barbaric practices and cannot be taught right from wrong. You kill cultists of Orcus or Tiamat because their beliefs are different from yours and that causes them to do down the road of violence. You kill owlbears attacking farmers who are settling the wild lands and bringing civilization to the frontier.

D&D always takes the side of the conqueror, the vigilante, or settler. It used alignment as a tool i justify the violence in fiction, but D&D will do just fine justifying putting orcs, cultists and other "monsters" to the sword without it. It's a game based on violence against others and as long as you believe you can morally justify the violence and theft, it will work.

Which is why my ultimate takeaway from any sort of real-world morality grafted onto gaming is that you accept the premise your foes actually are evil and thus you can participate in the violence OR you believe all conflict comes from a place of conflicting interests and mediation and resolution should be the primary method of resolution, with violence as a sad last resort.

Because if the orcs aren't Evil, they're just in your way...

 

[Maxperson]

That's right folks, ignore all systematic or normalized racism because it can be explained away with Rorschach tests.

As a Jewish man, I see antisemitisim quite often in the world. I didn't(and still don't despite all the non-Jews telling me it's there) see it in Harry Potter, Watto or Ferengi.

 

[CleverNickName]

Again, some correlation does not equal causation.

But correlation is problematic, too. Discussing what caused the Ferengi to be portrayed the way they are is interesting, but isn't it also offputting that these correlations keep showing up in the same types of media, for the same types of characters?

 

[Maxperson]

You're so close...

The point of labeling things "evil" is to justify killing things and taking thier stuff. It's the ultimate expression of vigilante justice, conquest of the righteous and night making right.

You kill orcs because they are irredeemably evil. They worship Heathen gods, have barbaric practices and cannot be taught right from wrong. You kill cultists of Orcus or Tiamat because their beliefs are different from yours and that causes them to do down the road of violence. You kill owlbears attacking farmers who are settling the wild lands and bringing civilization to the frontier.

D&D always takes the side of the conqueror, the vigilante, or settler. It used alignment as a tool i justify the violence in fiction, but D&D will do just fine justifying putting orcs, cultists and other "monsters" to the sword without it. It's a game based on violence against others and as long as you believe you can morally justify the violence and theft, it will work.

Which is why my ultimate takeaway from any sort of real-world morality grafted onto gaming is that you accept the premise your foes actually are evil and thus you can participate in the violence OR you believe all conflict comes from a place of conflicting interests and mediation and resolution should be the primary method of resolution, with violence as a sad last resort.

Because if the orcs aren't Evil, they're just in your way...

You're close as well. You kill things and take their stuff in D&D because they oppose and attack you, or are labeled monsters. Alignment isn't really very relevant to that. If a band of mercenaries(most of whom are probably not evil) is attacking the castle of the lord that hired you to defend it, you kill them and take their stuff.

Things are labeled good, evil or neutral in D&D because they behave in a good, evil or neutral manner. Not to justify killing them and taking their stuff. Simple opposition is all it takes in the game for the killing and looting.