D&D General What if Critical Role had stuck with Pathfinder? Or 4E?

Yeah, poor choice of words on my part. How about "Became runaway popular when?"
I'd say that's still not right. CR was runaway popular before the pandemic as well.

There's no doubt that the pandemic has been good for certain business - from streaming games to selling the games themselves. But both D&D 5e and CR were runaway successes before the pandemic. The pandemic has had a serious effect on our perceptions - it feels like it's been forever, but it really has been just the last 2 years.

It's easy to forget how things was in the before time, in history back...
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I'd say that's still not right. CR was runaway popular before the pandemic as well.

There's no doubt that the pandemic has been good for certain business - from streaming games to selling the games themselves. But both D&D 5e and CR were runaway successes before the pandemic. The pandemic has had a serious effect on our perceptions - it feels like it's been forever, but it really has been just the last 2 years.

It's easy to forget how things was in the before time, in history back...

Hey at least it isn't the 20s. When the Spanish Flu came around people spent five years wearing masks and even literally being clubbed in the middle of the street by the police for not wearing one.

So maybe it's not so bad as it could be, and you're right that CR and D&D don't have anything to do with this nonsense we're all tired of thinking and talking about.
 


That is demonstrably untrue: CR viewership is a tiny fraction of the 5E player base, and 5E was already a huge success by the time the stream started.
That's demonstrably untrue. The PHB was released in August 2014. The MM in September 2014. And the DMG in December 2014. CR started streaming in March 2015. Depending on how you count it, 5E was between 3 and 7 months old at that point. It was not the resurgent pop culture fad it eventually became when it was that new. A success, sure. On its way to beat 4E, sure. Beating Pathfinder? Maybe, I don't remember exactly when the top spot swap took place. But it certainly wasn't all this that quickly.
 


5E's popularity is mostly due to Critical Role. So if CR had streamed Pathfinder games, then Pathfinder wouldn't be obscure. It would be the dominant d20 fantasy RPG.
I don’t believe this for one second. 5e’s popularity is an order of magnitude larger, at least, than critical roles.
Small sample I know, it no one I have met at my FLGS he ever watched CR, though I did convince some of them to watch the cartoon
 

That's demonstrably untrue. The PHB was released in August 2014. The MM in September 2014. And the DMG in December 2014. CR started streaming in March 2015. Depending on how you count it, 5E was between 3 and 7 months old at that point. It was not the resurgent pop culture fad it eventually became when it was that new. A success, sure. On its way to beat 4E, sure. Beating Pathfinder? Maybe, I don't remember exactly when the top spot swap took place. But it certainly wasn't all this that quickly.
So what you have basically proved is that CR’s popularity, in part, was due to the switch to 5e, just like Matt said.
 

That's demonstrably untrue. The PHB was released in August 2014. The MM in September 2014. And the DMG in December 2014. CR started streaming in March 2015. Depending on how you count it, 5E was between 3 and 7 months old at that point. It was not the resurgent pop culture fad it eventually became when it was that new. A success, sure. On its way to beat 4E, sure. Beating Pathfinder? Maybe, I don't remember exactly when the top spot swap took place. But it certainly wasn't all this that quickly.
D&D took back the top spot almost instantly - Fall quarter 2014, according to ICv2. And it hasn't budged from that spot since.
 
Last edited:

D&D took back the stop spot almost instantly - Fall quarter 2014, according to ICv2. And it hasn't budged from that spot since.

Lol Paizo sells more books for a couple months and now years later it's like Pathfinder was more popular? There was a minute there in the hobby shops where we gathered to enjoy our Magic the Gathering and Warhammer and D&D, that it seemed everyone was into Paizo in all the stores.

But even then it didn't last all that long and I saw plenty of people playing 5E when I wasn't busy playing 3.5.
 

I think Critical Role's success and D&D 5E's success went hand-in-hand. Each one helped the other.

Switching to 5E helped Critical Role because CritRole was a completely new show that needed something to hook viewers. Using the current "big thing" in roleplaying... D&D 5E... was that thing. D&D as a brand was a more known property to all those potential Geek & Sundry viewers that perhaps were board and video gamers but not necessarily into RPGs. Had CritRole used Pathfinder, there is no guarantee that it would have caught as many casual Geek & Sundry viewers because less of them would have known what "Pathfinder" was. They'd have had to have been told "Well, it's like Dungeons & Dragons, but it's a little different..." yadda yadda yadda. But by actually using D&D there was less instruction needed. This probably helped onboard more people into the show and into this particular game and roleplaying in general.

5E of course benefitted because CritRole was the right group with the right players and the right DM at the right time to show people what was possible to be done with this game and who were willing to take the game seriously. D&D and the art of roleplaying were not treated like it was a joke that was being played. I don't think the same can be said as much with regards to say Adventure Zone or Nerd Poker or the Penny Arcade / PvP podcasts that were all active by the time CR started. All of them were shows with silliness to them and where the gag was almost "Hey, look at this goofy thing we're doing!" rather than treating the player of the game seriously but letting the humor come out of the play. I mean heck... I think all three of those podcasts had characters with joke names, and that right there told us that they were not treating their games like they were anything more than a fun, goofy time.

CR didn't treat things that way nearly as much-- at least not on stream. Mercer treated the stories as serious and the players treated Mercer's stories as serious. And I think this is because they were all trained actors in improvisation... where one of the central tenets is to treat scenes as real, even if all kinds of ridiculousness is going on around you. You wink at the audience in the middle of a scene to tell them "Yeah, I know this is stupid!", and the entirety of the scene breaks down and you lose them. CR didn't do that. They treated their stories and the game seriously while also doing all kinds of goofy stuff in character. And thus it made it easier to hold an audience week after week because the cast was treating it real, and they never made the audience feel the fool for watching them do it.

Thus... with all these players being able to be seen live and onscreen in-person taking this game seriously and not treat it as a big joke, it allowed for more people to not see D&D as a joke... which quite frankly has been its most difficult stumbling block for decades. Seeing it played allowed people to understand the game was actually as serious as you wanted to make it. And that's what helped 5E and all the RPGs out there get a foot into a door that had up to that point been held shut by a large swathe of culture. D&D was no longer this gag of a game because you could now see it played just as seriously as any other game out there.
 

Remove ads

Top