D&D 5E Why AD&D Rocks and 3e - 5e Mocks all over AC...

[Helldritch]

heck try it in jeans and a leather jacket

I did. My chiropracter thanks you very much for this wonderful idea you gave us.

 

[Dausuul]

Curious - in your attempt to excise ability scores, what - if anything - were you going to replace them with?

The ability modifier would be folded into your proficiency bonus (so proficiency bonus would go from +5 at 1st level up to +11 at 20th, give or take). Whenever you pick up a d20, you either roll with proficiency, or with no modifier at all.

The other effects of ability scores (encumbrance, AC, weapon damage, etc.) would need to be handled on a case by case basis. The sheer number of cases is why I abandoned the effort to do it as a homebrew.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

This is actually somewhat tongue in cheek...so don't take the title all THAT seriously. This isn't REALLY an AD&D vs. other editions thing...it's more of a discussion on the why's and what's of AC in 3e and 5e.


AD&D allows the full DEX modifier.

I found it ridiculous how 3e decided that your DEX modifier to AC was limited due to the armor type. Even more so with 5e.

Why did they even start this trend (Back in 3e) of limiting the amount of DEX modifier you could have to your AC depending on the type of armor you wore?

Ridiculous assumptions regarding armor? Fallacious views of how mobile knights were?

Anyone know the answer?

Anyone share my view that the full DEX modifier should be allowed to be added to AC regardless of armor type. The only thing that happens by not allowing this is reducing Warrior efficiency. People already criticize the Warrior types for being weaker at higher levels...let them have that DEX bonus (if they even have it) to their AC!

If you want someone in a black leather vest and rapier to be able to take on an equally skilled person in plate harness and longsword, you need to start playing fast and loose with reality. To start with, you need to find a way to give the rapier-wielder the same bonuses to attack and defend as the knight, while preventing the knight being able to apply those same bonuses to the effective imperviousness that their armour already grants them.

Realistically, adventurers might well not wear full plate at all times, because it gets hot and uncomfortable to wear a full suit for repeated days walk, which is something that adventurers spend time doing more than they do fighting.
Armour also limits a human's maximum capability to swim, jump etc, but that is too complex to model in the ruleset, so just 5e applies those reductions to even unarmoured people.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

you need to find a way to give the rapier-wielder the same bonuses to attack and defend as the knight, while preventing the knight being able to apply those same bonuses to the effective imperviousness that their armour already grants them.

game balance... so a wizard with mage armor and a 14 dex has a 15 AC a rogue in fake (studded leather) with a 17 dex has an AC 16 and a fighter with a sword sheild and dex of 12 has an AC of 17

15,16,17 grouped together

 

[Faolyn]

I kind of doubt most people (self included) could do better gymnastics buck naked.

Are you sure about that?

PS people dancing in full plate was requested I believe:

Fun videos! Thanks for the links. Of course, the real test would be a person in full armor versus someone in no armor, or "light" armor. Because, in D&D terms, full military or firefighter gear could have the same maximum Dex bonus allowed. On the other hand, from what I can tell, it normally takes a half an hour (give or take some time) to run a 5k, so the guy in chain mail was perfectly average.

 

[jmartkdr2]

As was mentioned above, total weight should matter more than what armor you wear. To me, penalties should be based on a percentage of your total carry capacity. That 8 strength wizard that's at 90% carrying capacity should have a bigger penalty than the guy in plate at 50% carrying capacity.

I remember a game where one of the PCs mentioned they couldn't carry something that weighed 5 pounds because it would put them over capacity. We had to cross a river. Guess which PC had disadvantage? Or that time the DM used command to tell my PC to "jump" which could only be interpreted as jumping overboard to sink to the bottom of the harbor.

D&D is not particularly realistic, the fact that some DMs go out of their way to penalize people in heavy armor because they have the audacity to have an AC a point or two above that rogue always amazed me.

I always get annoyed when I want I'm playing heavy armored paladin and the term "realism" gets used. Note that no one complains about smiting or laying of hands, those are apparently realistic enough. Sleeping, however...

 

[Oofta]

Are you sure about that?

View attachment 251638


Fun videos! Thanks for the links. Of course, the real test would be a person in full armor versus someone in no armor, or "light" armor. Because, in D&D terms, full military or firefighter gear could have the same maximum Dex bonus allowed. On the other hand, from what I can tell, it normally takes a half an hour (give or take some time) to run a 5k, so the guy in chain mail was perfectly average.

Good point. These videos are kind of pointless without comparing to some approximation of anything other than "plate armor" vs "effectively naked". Try to approximate different types of armor, carrying a heavy backpack that we always ignore and so on.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Are you sure about that?

View attachment 251638

Not all of us are the Best Boy.

 

[jmartkdr2]

The ability modifier would be folded into your proficiency bonus (so proficiency bonus would go from +5 at 1st level up to +11 at 20th, give or take). Whenever you pick up a d20, you either roll with proficiency, or with no modifier at all.

The other effects of ability scores (encumbrance, AC, weapon damage, etc.) would need to be handled on a case by case basis. The sheer number of cases is why I abandoned the effort to do it as a homebrew.

For most other cases, half your new + improved proficiency mod works. That goes for weapon damage, number of Bardic Inspirations, and so on.

AC needs a rework but for medium and mage armor you can just set them to fixed amounts like heavy armor already does.

And now we're down to a handful of edge cases.

 

[Faolyn]

Good point. These videos are kind of pointless without comparing to some approximation of anything other than "plate armor" vs "effectively naked". Try to approximate different types of armor, carrying a heavy backpack that we always ignore and so on.

Right. In the obstacle course, it looked like the firefighter lost some time trying to move his dangling equipment out of the time.