D&D 5E Is 5E Special

[GMforPowergamers]

I think it is ok to complain, and I would support more powerful martial abilities. And as I said time and time again, please salvage more from 4e.

agreeed

But, be careful not to overreact and destroy what people love about 5e. It is a small grate to walk on.

I mean I could take a compelt overhaul... but some minor tweeks might be able to make us all happy... heck add 2 classes and you could most likely end half teh arguements.

Edit: 3.0 was not unplayable. 3.5 started that trend.

I still don't remember the diffrences... but I played them both, but by the end I just didn't want to play 3.5 anymore... it felt more like work

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Okay... take the 11th level 3rd attack and (17th?) 4th one away... move the second attack UP to 11th level. Take action surge and indomitable out. Now build superiority dice in from battle master at level 1 (maybe 1d4 then 2d4 at snd and 2d6 at 3rd... its' a spitball) then go through and make sets of maneuvers and gate them behind level restrictions (to avoid being spells just recoded I keep saying 5th 10th 15th and 20th but you could do 4th 9th 14th and 19th just as easy)
the groups of maneuvers should be split mostly evenly but favoring combat... so maybe 50% combat 30% explortation 20% sociol (again spit balling)
Now I would make them each have an atwill (you can just do this now) and a spend the Sup Die ability... and have some have BIGGER spend 2 Sup die abilities.

then take a handful of class features and make them optional (remember we are replacing action surge and indomitable still) with 3 choices at each of the level you would get these (I know 2nd and 9th off top of my head, but the more uses I don't remember) 2 of witch will be non supernatural and 1 that is supernatural so you can play this class either way.

The maneuvers would be pretty easy at 1st level because all the current ones work... but at higher levels look at spells.

lets say we did 'on the 5s' so there would be a new set of maneuvers with prereq level 5... you can look at 2nd level and 3rd level spells for inspiration., and at 10th level you can look to 4th and 5th level ones, at 15th level you can look at 6th and 7th and at 20th level 8th and 9th.
Now most should not be just reskined spells (but some should... there is a steel wind thing, haste, and maybe even earthquake all are potential ones... but you need to have some that are martial supernatural and some that are martial extrodanary but not magic or supernatureal...

I have 0 problem with 1 option the class has is "You strike reality and tear a hole into another realm" as a reskined planeshift... but I don't want to FORCE it as a class ability just one that they can take if they want to go that way... (superman punching through time anyone?)

But this solution deteriorates into spells under a different name again, as in the rune knight...
This it what makes it exceptional difficult to have abilities that match magic and are not magic.

For me I would like to see exceptional regeneration and diehardiness. Exceptional ability to overcome magic.
Exceptional exploration mechanics.

So actually, just combining champion and battlemaster would be a good start.

 

[Reynard]

This thread has gone way off the rails, but it does show the real reason 5E is so popular: people can't stop arguing about it.

 

[Oofta]

This thread has gone way off the rails, but it does show the real reason 5E is so popular: people can't stop arguing about it.

If people weren't invested, they wouldn't want to discuss.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

But this solution deteriorates into spells under a different name again, as in the rune knight...

did you miss the part of

Now most should not be just reskined spells (but some should... there is a steel wind thing, haste, and maybe even earthquake all are potential ones... but you need to have some that are martial supernatural and some that are martial extrodanary but not magic or supernatureal...

so NOT all reskined spells just use those for aproximite power levels... I don't mind SOME reskined spells just with fluff of being "You are just that tough" but I don't want all of them that way.

even low level spells like Jump and Exp retreat you can take the mechanic, remove all the spell casting stuff just leave the effect and redo it as "You have trained to be the best leaper you can, you can jump 3x more then normal if you spend a SPD"
but I can also see suggestion... "You are so charming you can manipulate people into doing what you want, spend a SPD and they make a Cha save or do it"
but I would also want things like spider climb... "You can move across any uneven or small surfface at will, but if you spend a SPD you can roll it and for that many minutes you can climb sheer surfaces and even hang from the cealings... your finger str is amazing"

This it what makes it exceptional difficult to have abilities that match magic and are not magic.

4e did it (mostly)

For me I would like to see exceptional regeneration and diehardiness. Exceptional ability to overcome magic.
Exceptional exploration mechanics.

I really like teh middle earth 5e books for exploration things

So actually, just combining champion and battlemaster would be a good start.

yeah... really think battlemaster should have been teh base figher before subclass

 

[UngeheuerLich]

did you miss the part of

so NOT all reskined spells just use those for aproximite power levels... I don't mind SOME reskined spells just with fluff of being "You are just that tough" but I don't want all of them that way.

even low level spells like Jump and Exp retreat you can take the mechanic, remove all the spell casting stuff just leave the effect and redo it as "You have trained to be the best leaper you can, you can jump 3x more then normal if you spend a SPD"
but I can also see suggestion... "You are so charming you can manipulate people into doing what you want, spend a SPD and they make a Cha save or do it"
but I would also want things like spider climb... "You can move across any uneven or small surfface at will, but if you spend a SPD you can roll it and for that many minutes you can climb sheer surfaces and even hang from the cealings... your finger str is amazing"

4e did it (mostly)

I really like teh middle earth 5e books for exploration things

yeah... really think battlemaster should have been teh base figher before subclass

I did not miss it, but you did only give spellike examples.
I don't think 4e did it all that well. There were abilities that crossed the line for many people.
I think you don't have to look too far. In 5e, the swashbuckler has a quasimagical taunt. Maybe sonething along that line.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I did not miss it, but you did only give spellike examples.

sorry I'm not a game designer... I will go back and look at 4e utility powers and get back to you

I don't think 4e did it all that well. There were abilities that crossed the line for many people.

and I disagree with those people... I would kill to get 'come and get it' and 'leading the attack back' but ESPECIALLY the damage on a miss

I think you don't have to look too far. In 5e, the swashbuckler has a quasimagical taunt. Maybe sonething along that line.

yeah that is a good place to look... that might be the one that at 9th level can charm like a starting wizard

 

[Parmandur]

Oh, the adventuring day. This has been a problem for a long time now. In 3E, just about every town had vending machines with spell in can that shot the adventuring day to hell. 4E really blurred the lines with ADEU, but at least tried to keep the adventuring day theme going with healing surges (god that name....). 5E sort of split the difference, but now has the odd 6-8 encounters a day so that short rest classes can manage their resources.

I do wish more thought would be put into the adventuring day and how the system works. To me, that means getting rid of encounter powers, and stopping the bottling of spells. Though, its more likely in the future they will go the PF2 route and just blow up any concept of adventuring day at all. Future seems to be balanced around before and between encounters.

I mean, they did put extensive playtesting into it. Recent moves suggest that short rest powers are being demoralized in favor of proficiency bonus per day...but in math terms that's a wash.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

and I disagree with those people... I would kill to get 'come and get it' and 'leading the attack back' but ESPECIALLY the damage on a miss

I think damage on a miss was not that terrible. I rather liked it...
Maybe if you make it miss by 5 or less.

 

[payn]

Y'all really want to take this thread to wild places with DOAM!