D&D (2024) Feat Chains are Incompatible with Easy CharGen + 1st Lev Feats

[MGibster]

Some people you can take to a restaurant with a huge menu, or lots of combinations like a meat and three, and they'll hone right in on what they want and order. And others... well, the rest of the table gets to put the free drink refills to the test. Has never seemed related to intelligence to me.

All the have at this restaurant are chicken sandwiches, hamburgers, and grilled cheese. It's not that hard, Dave!

My apologies, I'm having a flashback.

 

[Cadence]

All the have at this restaurant are chicken sandwiches, hamburgers, and grilled cheese. It's not that hard, Dave!

My apologies, I'm having a flashback.

Think but hopefully don't say "But it's the same menu as the last three FastFoodBrandPlace we drove through" (Insert three minute delay).

 

[CleverNickName]

They've already said that feat chains will be short. Whether short is 2 or 3 is the question.

Yeah, I know. I'm hoping enough people (with enough survey responses) could change their mind on that. I'll do my part, but...I won't hold my breath.

Just more house-rule work for me later, I guess.

 

[Charlaquin]

They've already said that feat chains will be short. Whether short is 2 or 3 is the question. I'm inclined to think 2, since 3 would be most of the feats a character gets.

Half, since a 1st level feat is standard now.

 

[Maxperson]

Half, since a 1st level feat is standard now.

Yes, but it's part of the background, so presumably wouldn't be a part of a feat chain where you are using ASIs.

 

[Minigiant]

Crawford off-handedly mentioned 20th level feats. This is unlilkely but it is possible feats will be tiered and only have chain withing tier.

1st Level: Rune Carver Apprentice (Tier 1 feat)
4th Level Rune Carver Adept (Tier 1 feat, requires Rune Crafter Adept)
6th Level: Heavily Armored (Tier 2 feat)
8th Level: Heavy Armor Master (Tier 2 feat, requires Heavily Armored)

Crawford also said feats are supposed to work for people who already have the flavor and those who what it. Like Healer lets a fighter heal but also buffs clerics.

So I could see old feats redesigned and tiered.

Heavily Armored
Prerequisite: 6th level, Proficiency with medium armor

• Increase your Strength score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• You gain proficiency with heavy armor.
• When wearing heavy armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC

Heavy Armor Master
Prerequisite: 8th level, Heavily Armored

• Increase your Strength score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• While you are wearing heavy armor, bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage that you take from nonmagical attacks is reduced by 6 and magical attacks by 3.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Crawford off-handedly mentioned 20th level feats. This is unlilkely but it is possible feats will be tiered and only have chain withing tier.

I wonder what the power level of a 10th+ level feat looks like let alone a 20th. I mean lucky is one of the top 5 feats now and this didn't do much to depower it.

In fact a 17th level character with the right ion stone can have 7pt of luck with a 1st level feat

 

[NaturalZero]

I feel like the ideal way to do this is to have higher level feats synergize with lower specific level feats but not actually be part of a tree or require them as prerequisites.

The tavern brawler might give you an unarmed strike and then a different 4th level feat might let you perform stunts with unarmed strikes. Both feats synergize, but you don't need the tavern brawler as a hard prereq and the higher level feat benefits other builds that don't have tavern brawler. You could have an elemetnal adept feat at 1st level that gives you access to some elemental spells. At 4th level, there's a feat that gives you special benefits when using specific elements. The feats synergize like a tree would but you don't need the 1st level feat to benefit from the 4th level feat or even take it at all.

Ultimately, this looks like yet another situation where 4e had it right all along - you didn't need lower level feats as prereqs for higher level feats, and you could just take any feat that was available at your tier or lower. At higher level, you could swap out any lower tier feat you had and it wouldn't invalidate your build because it wasn't a prereq for anything you were still using. It was up to you to find synergies between all of the feats you picked up instead of being locked into trees.

 

[Minigiant]

I wonder what the power level of a 10th+ level feat looks like let alone a 20th. I mean lucky is one of the top 5 feats now and this didn't do much to depower it.

In fact a 17th level character with the right ion stone can have 7pt of luck with a 1st level feat

If 1DND keeps the same pattern it's a level8 or 12 feat.

For magic,that's 4th level magic and 6th level magic respectively.

For martials, it's trickier

8th level is between your 5th level power spike and your 11th level power spike.
A barbarian gets Feral Instinct at 7 and Brutal Critical at 9.
Monk? Evasion and Stillness at 7. Then their movement improves at 9
Rogue? Evasion at 7 then a noncombat Subclass thing at 9

So a 8th level feat should be about the power level as Evasion.

12th level power is trickier as you just got a huge power spike at level 11 AND it will be your first feat if you maxxed out to 20 first OR your first or Second ASI if you went down a 2 or 3 feat tree.

 

[cbwjm]

I like feat chains though they are difficult to implement in the current game due to lack of ASIs. If they are granting bonus feats at 1st and 4th level though, then that solves that issue. I'm wanting to see a follow up to magic initiate that grants another cantrip, 1st, and 2nd level spell, or something like that to show a deeper study of magic, I think it'd be rad.