D&D (2024) So where are the higher tier feats?

[fluffybunbunkittens]

That's the point. Some things are not appropriate for level 1 but are appropriate for level 4, 8, 12 etc.

In theory, yes. In practise, WotC is putting stuff like Magic Initiate (broken for casters) and Lightly Armored (broken for casters, ofc) into lv1 feats, so there went that consideration.

Now the system is just making it pointlessly punishing to take any lv1 feat after lv1, for no balance gain. But at least those filthy warriors are being kept away from fighting style feats before lv4. No, not those fighting style feats, the other fighting style feats.

 

[Minigiant]

I prefer the 2014 approach of feats without levels.

They did have levels.

Level 1.

All the 2014 feats were balanced around being pickable at level 1.

Tha's why it broke when feats like SS, PAM, and GWM could "scale to higher levels.

 

[Marandahir]

Most people don't get to the high levels because WOTC and most 3PP do not focus or even pay attention to it.

See Feats

When WotC did make higher tier adventures and content people ignored it, though.

Like practically nobody bought or played the Epic Tier modules in 4e, and similarly, the Epic Characters Handbook in 3e was a major underseller. It's not so much a lack of content as that tables tend to start at lower tiers, and burn out before they get to the top tiers of the game. Even if their tables didn't burn out, they tend to slow burn and advance at a lumbering pace that stretches out for years before even breaching level 10.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have Epic Boons or higher-level-locked feats, mind you -- I'm explicitly in favour of more epic tier content! But I don't think the rationale is because they don't focus on it. And I think they're tabling most feats for the time being because this package was already huge. The only feats included were the Fighting Style feats -- which are required to make certain classes work -- and the ASI feat, which is required for all classes in lieu of any other feats.

 

[Minigiant]

When WotC did make higher tier adventures and content people ignored it, though.

Like practically nobody bought or played the Epic Tier modules in 4e, and similarly, the Epic Characters Handbook in 3e was a major underseller. It's not so much a lack of content as that tables tend to start at lower tiers, and burn out before they get to the top tiers of the game. Even if their tables didn't burn out, they tend to slow burn and advance at a lumbering pace that stretches out for years before even breaching level 10.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have Epic Boons or higher-level-locked feats, mind you -- I'm explicitly in favour of more epic tier content! But I don't think the rationale is because they don't focus on it. And I think they're tabling most feats for the time being because this package was already huge. The only feats included were the Fighting Style feats -- which are required to make certain classes work -- and the ASI feat, which is required for all classes in lieu of any other feats.

One of the things that hurt high level play in 3e and 4e was that it was complicated to make a high level character
There were few good character creator sites or apps back then.
So every one started at level 1 and burned out by level 8-10.

However now with things like DDB, you can make a level 10 PC easier.
But there is no content and customization options to run a campaign that starts at level 8.

 

[Marandahir]

One of the things that hurt high level play in 3e and 4e was that it was complicated to make a high level character
There were few good character creator sites or apps back then.
So every one started at level 1 and burned out by level 8-10.

However now with things like DDB, you can make a level 10 PC easier.
But there is no content and customization options to run a campaign that starts at level 8.

May I ask you what The Rise of Tiamat and Dungeon of the Mad Mage are, then?

I'm CERTAIN that there are tables that only bought these and not the lower-level modules related to them.

 

[Minigiant]

May I ask you what The Rise of Tiamat and Dungeon of the Mad Mage are, then?

I'm CERTAIN that there are tables that only bought these and not the lower-level modules related to them.

How many feats are in Rise of Tiamat and Dungeons of the Mad Mage?

 

[Marandahir]

How many feats are in Rise of Tiamat and Dungeons of the Mad Mage?

Sorry, I meant them as content, not customization options.

I am speculating that the 5.24 DMG will help with higher-tier gameplay guidance, and that the 5.24 PHB will have these higher tier feats. They're just not relevant for this package.

 

[Azzy]

With Epic Boons turn Feats being removed from progression to be revisited, the only feats currently in the UA playtest are

• the original 5e feats without a level prerequisite
• the UA 5e feats with a 1st level prerequisite
• the UA and Campaign feats with a 4th level 1st level prerequisite

So now there is no feats being playtested that are appropriate from 5th to 20th level. Nothing for Tier 2, Tier 3, and tier 4.

There's still the feats from previous playtests. Per the feats section in this playtest packet, "Playtest characters can also select feats from previous installments of the 2022 Unearthed Arcana series.".

 

[tetrasodium]

every feat that is appropriate for level 4 is for level 1.

we played with bonus feat at 1st level for years and it never broke anything.

if was that bad they wouldn't add custom background on top of variant human. well, maybe they would. They gave us twilight cleric.

level one d&d characters are not gaining feats from truck-kun. Not everything appropriate for higher levels is appropriate for level one & not everything appropriate for higher levels is appropriate without a prerequisite of something other than level alone.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

They did have levels.

Level 1.

All the 2014 feats were balanced around being pickable at level 1.

Tha's why it broke when feats like SS, PAM, and GWM could "scale to higher levels.

no, there are no level requirements in the 2014 rules. You are just pointing our some feat design / balance issues.