D&D 5E Spelljammer Errata

[Stormonu]

Just don’t make the monkey people also former slaves.

At one point or another, I think every (intelligent) D&D race has been a slave to some other race in one product or another. Unfortunately, certain combinations play back to stereotypes/tropes that are just no longer acceptable.

As for simic races, D&D has had many over the years - Hadozee, Dakon, White Apes, and Grommans, just to name a few. It seems we've seen less and less of such races of late, and I've noticed a reluctance for people to even use creatures such as Gorillians in games for reasons I don't fully understand.

And I think the last time that even near-humans, like Neaderthals, were mentioned in D&D was some time back in 2E.

 

[Faolyn]

Have you read the writeup and seen the imagery in question? It’s not at all blatant or egregious. It should have been caught, sure, but it’s not at all surprising that a team of people whose minds weren’t on the subject of sensitivity would not make the connection. This is not at all on the level of Volo’s orcs or CoS Vistani.

No, I have not, because I'm going to be playing in the game. However, my friend went on a long tear about them. According to him, they were freed from slavery (by an ex-slaver) and now all happily work for the person who freed them. If this is accurate, it has some disturbing tones to it.

 

[darjr]

Before this all came up, I was enough concerned about the Hadozee that I flopped back-and-forth about including them in my Spelljammer game at all. (I really LIKE them myself, but was concerned that I might do something insensitive with them). I hadn't read their lore (still haven't), which I am sure would have put me off, if I had seen it. I was just worried about their LOOK.

The controversy didn't surprise me one bit.

Edit: Oh oh. I think I may be talking about the forbidden subject here. I am sorry in advance of moderation and will stop now. Oops.

I was attempting to tell the news without causing a flood of work for the mods. However I think this thread has drifted a bit into the topic, still I’d appreciate it not going there unless or until the mods are ready to deal with a flood.

 

[Alzrius]

creatures such as Gorillians

I think you mean girallons?

Girallon

Girallons were aggressive, carnivorous apes with four arms. They were incredibly strong and territorial.[1] An adult girallon was about 8 feet (240 centimeters) tall and weighed 800 pounds (360 kilograms). It appeared to be a four-armed ape with thick white fur and curved tusks in its mouth...

forgottenrealms.fandom.com

Personally, I'm more of a su-monster fan myself.

Su-monster

Su-monsters (pronounced: /ˈsuːmɑːnstɜːrz/ SOO-man-sturz) were evil primate-like creatures with innate psionic abilities. Su-monsters had gorilla-like heads, attached to a canine physique, with broad chests and thin, tapered waists. Their four prehensile limbs were tipped with sharp nails, which...

forgottenrealms.fandom.com

 

[Thommy H-H]

No, I have not, because I'm going to be playing in the game. However, my friend went on a long tear about them. According to him, they were freed from slavery (by an ex-slaver) and now all happily work for the person who freed them. If this is accurate, it has some disturbing tones to it.

It isn't. That's kind of a blend of the 5th Edition stuff and some of the older background from 2nd and 3.5th edition. If they appeared together, it would be incredibly egregious, but that isn't the case.

 

[Stormonu]

I think you mean girallons?

Yes, thank you - I obviously had "gorilla" on my mind.

 

[Faolyn]

I personally find it completely unacceptable to conclude that there cannot be a race of intelligent simians.

Just don’t make the monkey people also former slaves.

I also have trouble taking the idea that a simian bard with a lute is inherently reminiscent of minstrel shows entirely seriously, though. As with many other things I find absurd, I just have to accept that if it hurts people that hurt is valid and should be respected on some level.

I think the problem is the combination of the (recently?) former slaves with the bard bit and the ape bit, not each element on their own.

 

[Dire Bare]

I am honestly very angry that my special cover copy that my children have been flipping through and reading has this material in it, that obviously they could have changed this fast before going to print if they had hired a sensitivity writer.

Use it as an opportunity for conversation and education with your kids. Talk about racist stereotypes and how they can be embedded in literature and gaming, and how it can be hard for those not directly affected to even notice them. How good, well-meaning people can make mistakes like this.

 

[Dire Bare]

I also have trouble taking the idea that a simian bard with a lute is inherently reminiscent of minstrel shows entirely seriously, though. As with many other things I find absurd, I just have to accept that if it hurts people that hurt is valid and should be respected on some level.

Have you seen the hadozee image directly compared to old minstrel images? It's so close you have to wonder if the artist intentionally copied it! Character pose and everything, it's not just a simian-person with a lute. I don't think the artist did this intentionally, but oof.

The artwork IS problematic on its own, but combined with the missteps in the lore, it's a perfect storm of a blunder. WotC is right to change the lore and remove the image.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think the problem is the combination of the (recently?) former slaves with the bard bit and the ape bit, not each element on their own.

That’s what I thought, too, until they took down the art as well, and I found so many statements from folks that were offended by the main race image in itself, before even reading the story.

No, I have not, because I'm going to be playing in the game. However, my friend went on a long tear about them. According to him, they were freed from slavery (by an ex-slaver) and now all happily work for the person who freed them. If this is accurate, it has some disturbing tones to it.

As someone else said, that isn’t the case. They were helped in freeing themselves by the apprentices of the wizard who created them to be slaves, because the apprentices immediately recognized that what was being done was wrong, and the hadozee ganked said wizard in the process of liberating themselves (with help), and then set about charting their own destiny. That’s the 5e story upon publication. The rest is from previous editions, and is not at all part of the 5e story.

So, bad, but not anywhere close to that.