D&D 5E Is the imbalance between classes in 5e accidental or by design?

[MichaelSomething]

For the 4th time, I'll happily run a high level (lets go 17th this time) one shot, cleaving closely to the DMG encounter creation/ adventuring day guidelines, and ill run it for 5 of you.

I bet you London to a Brick the Wizard is not OP compared to the other PCs.

One of the issues is that lots of people hate running/playing under the assumptions the rules describe. The eight encounter day a big example. Is it the fault of the Rule writers for making something too stiff or players for ignoring the rules?

Edit: I got ninjaed by the above post!

 

[Maxperson]

I'll give you that one. I love magic in that system!

I've been curious about that system. What's it like?

 

[Flamestrike]

Asking this question makes the opposite instantly true.

Again, it always seems like the people who complain the loudest are the ones too scared to actually want to demonstrate this so called imbalance.

The imbalance only exists, because DMs dont DM high level games, and dont know how to run high level casters.

Or in other words, its a DM problem, not an inherent feature of the Wizard.

Again, I run high level games, and I know the shennanigans. Im more than happy to literally run a game with a Wizard and 3-4 other PC's at literally any level and prove the 'Wizards are inherently unbalanced' line to be be a total lie.

 

[Umbran]

Yeah. The literally 3 times now I have ran (on here) a PbP high level campaign at levels 7, 13 and 15. In none of those one shots, were the casters OP in any way, shape or form.

Actual empirical evidence, instead of the standard handwringing on here.

Empirical evidence isn't much without statistical relevance, which your personal games do not provide.

As in - your games can show no sign of a problem, but it can still be a problem.

 

[Flamestrike]

I think this goes back to what I said my first comment in the thread.

The DMG Guidelines for adventure are very unpopular BUT the only way to balance a full caster the way D&D fans want casters.

Have Cake and Eat Cake.

D&D fans want Super Casters but don't want to be force into long dungeons when the DM is more antagonistic against them in obstacles and treasure.

The question is this setup deliberately and purposely crafted to be this way or an accident of the community preferences blowing it up.

Exactly. A Wizard (or indeed any Long rest dependent class) will dominate in a 5MWD.

My adventure I propose is NOT a 5MWD. It will cleave to the DMG 6 or so encounters, 2 short rests, Adventuring day.

 

[Flamestrike]

Empirical evidence isn't much without statistical relevance, which your personal games do not provide.

As in - your games can show no sign of a problem, but it can still be a problem.

I've yet to see any statistical evidence from the 'Wizards are God' camp either. In the 8 years of these threads being posted.

A lot of Schroedingers wizard arguments, and thats about it.

Shall we compare DPR over a 6-8 encounter AD, featuring 2-3 short rests, between the Wizard, Fighter and Rogue?

Fighter wins.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Again, it always seems like the people who complain the loudest are the ones too scared to actually want to demonstrate this so called imbalance.

Or don't have time to run simulations for other people's edification.

 

[Umbran]

No, 4e doesn't produce a balanced game.

I played 4e extensively. Suppose we start with per-essentials.

Mod Note:
Suppose, instead, we remember this thread is not about banging heads together over 4e. This thread is about the design of 5e.

So, let us bring it back to topic, please and thanks.

 

[Flamestrike]

Or don't have time to run simulations for other people's edification.

A simulation (for mine) beats the handwringing with zero evidence. It's evidence of a sort at least.

Particularly when the results are similar for multiple simulations, across varying levels of play.

I've run three so far, and I'll run another. At literally any level.

It's a form of evidence. I've yet to see any actual evidence put forward by the 'Wizards are God' camp at all.

 

[Umbran]

Again, it always seems like the people ...

Mod Note:
Stop making it about the people. If you can't stick to the logic and reasoning, please step away.

This goes for everyone - far too many of you are making personal comments, or otherwise getting snippy. Do not continue that trend. Take a break if you can't be respectful about it.