Dragonlance Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs On Krynn

Talking to the Dragonlance Nexus, Dragonlance creators Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman revealed why the world of Krynn features no orcs -- in short, because they didn't want to copy Tolkien, and orcs were very much a 'Middle Earth' thing.

Weis told Trampas Whiteman that "Orcs were also viewed as very Middle Earth. We wanted something different." Hickman added that it was draconians which made Krynn stand out. Read more at the link below!

Why are there no Orcs in Krynn? Weis and Hickman give us the answer! - Dragonlance Nexus

Dragonhelm gets the scoop from Weis and Hickman on why there are no orcs in Krynn. Read More

dragonlancenexus.com

 

[DragonBelow]

Folks maybe should look at this like deciding going out for a meal. Do you want Itallian? Pizza? Chinese? Steak? Vegetarian? you pick one and you go.

Nobody is surprised, or upset, if they don't find sushi at the pizza joint, or rib-eyes at the vegetarian joint. Maybe you want to go to a restaurant where no choice is ever out of the menu, unfortunately you're likely to find they are not really great at anything either.

D&D settings are kind of like that. Let them be different.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Careful. Don't let 5e customers hear orcs being phrased as savage now.

Mod Note:

Let’s not go farther down this path, please.

 

[Demetrios1453]

but like I said in the other thread it is good reason that doesn't stand up in 2022. They felt Orc/Halforc was 1 note just evil foot soldier... they are not any more. They didn't want to repeat Tolken, and the Orc of today is not a 1:1 tolken (although I would argue that was true from at least 3e).
SO if those are the reasons, there is no reason (other then tradition) to not include them today.

So, WotC isn't allowed to publish anything other than kitchen sink settings from now on? Because any curated setting is by definition going to arbitrarily add or remove things from the rest of the ruleset.

 

[Maxperson]

So, WotC isn't allowed to publish anything other than kitchen sink settings from now on? Because any curated setting is by definition going to arbitrarily add or remove things from the rest of the ruleset.

The only thing I will disagree with you on is the word arbitrary. Arbitrary means without reason and curated settings usually have reasons for the removal of things or creation of new ones.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

They tell it to you.

"Tracy: “What people sometimes forget is that Orcs in Middle earth have a deep and specific history and origin as do their cousins the Uruk-Hai. That foundation simply didn’t exist in Krynn … ergo no orcs.”

The foundation and history for orcs appearing wasn't there. Ergo, no orcs.

With all due respect, they were the one's creating the foundation and history that lacked a place for orcs, so that justification feels a bit backwards to me. It's like saying the reason I didn't cook chicken for dinner is because I didn't buy any chicken at the grocery store. It's not that I don't like chicken, it's just the ingredients I have to cook with coincidentally don't include it. Hope you like hamburger.

If they had wanted orcs, they would have made a place for them - they chose not to.

Now, does that mean that they should have included orcs? No. I'm not going that far. But I don't think this rationale is the magic bullet to suddenly make all the people that aren't convinced by this style of worldbuilding change their minds that you seem to think it is.

 

[Maxperson]

With all due respect, they were the one's creating the foundation and history that lacked a place for orcs, so that justification feels a bit backwards to me. It's like saying the reason I didn't cook chicken for dinner is because I didn't buy any chicken at the grocery store. It's not that I don't like chicken, it's just the ingredients I have to cook with coincidentally don't include it. Hope you like hamburger.

If they had wanted orcs, they would have made a place for them - they chose not to.

Exactly! That's how world building works. You build the world with interlinking events that make sense. Had they included orcs with no reason for them to be there, that would be the opposite of world building. And had they excluded them without reason, it would also be the opposite of world building. They had to build the world to suit their goals and in this case that didn't include orcs.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'd buy that explanation better if the Silvanesti, Qualinesti and Kagonesti elves didn't resemble the Sindar, Vanyar and Nandor so much...

 

[LordEntrails]

Exactly! That's how world building works. You build the world with interlinking events that make sense. Had they included orcs with no reason for them to be there, that would be the opposite of world building. And had they excluded them without reason, it would also be the opposite of world building. They had to build the world to suit their goals and in this case that didn't include orcs.

I'm happy orcs are not in DL. It's part of the "good" parts of DL. But let's make sure we don't portray DL as a near perfect example of world building. All I will say is Steel Coins

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Exactly! That's how world building works. You build the world with interlinking events that make sense. Had they included orcs with no reason for them to be there, that would be the opposite of world building. And had they excluded them without reason, it would also be the opposite of world building. They had to build the world to suit their goals and in this case that didn't include orcs.

And I'm saying that had they included orcs (or should WotC decided to add them), then they almost certainly wouldn't just throw them in for no reason, but would instead construct a reason for orcs to be there in the same way they did everything they did put into the setting and work to integrate them into the world in a natural way.

If I were going to add something to a setting I like (primarily Eberron and Planescape for me), I'm not going to just "drop them in for no reason". I'm going to find/create a place for it to fit and weave it in so it does so naturally.

The only reason "orcs don't have a place in Krynn" is because no one's been allowed to try and make a place for them.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Eh, when it comes to fantasy games, I never play human PCs. I am one in real life, so why the heck would I play a fantasy one?

That's the same reason I don't play assassins.