D&D 5E The power of smite

[JiffyPopTart]

I don't think it is, people notice it because the spikes stand out but it seems to average out in the long run.

For numbers, I can only relay my experience from the Solasta video game which tracks damage per PC. In the game, the two weapon fighter generally does the most damage, paladins are second.

Spikes in and of themselves can be a problem. If the game works on the assumption PCs are dealing around X damage per round and a character spikes 6X damage in a round it can make an interesting encounter fall flat.

Do you think the actual smite spells listed would be balanced if they could be used without an action and without preplanning like the substituted damage smite could?

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Smite can be insanely powerful if you focus on getting the most out of it. I had a Paladin player in one game: Longtooth Shifter Vengeance Paladin 9, Fighter 2, Gloom Stalker 3, Favored Soul 6 (at retirement).

They started out as a vengeance paladin and at 2nd level could smite twice on a round of combat. At 5th level that was 3 times. After advancing to 9, it was 4 times when hasted. Then they took 2 levels of Fighter for Action Surge to raise it to 6. Then 3 levels of Gloom Stalker to make it 8 in the first round. Then they added sorcerer levels to allow them to gain more smiting and some good combat spells. They were very strong throughout on the alpha strike round in big combats. They took down some pretty big enemies with high damage in the first round due primarily to this guy getting in there.

I said in the shield discussion...extreme CharOp builds aren't a good way of determining balance in the system.

 

[Oofta]

Spikes in and of themselves can be a problem. If the game works on the assumption PCs are dealing around X damage per round and a character spikes 6X damage in a round it can make an interesting encounter fall flat.

Do you think the actual smite spells listed would be balanced if they could be used without an action and without preplanning like the substituted damage smite could?

I think that it doesn't really matter all that often, it averages out in the long run. A rogue's crits (especially at higher level) can also lead to significant damage spikes. It depends on so many factors though. Given the right set of circumstances, a barbarian with GWF will out-damage the paladin. In other cases, depending on level, the fighter can use their action surges to do more even if it's less spectacular.

Some of the lower level paladin spells should probably be more effective, I rarely used them.

 

[DND_Reborn]

IME smite is not overpowered really. Personally, what I don't like is it doubling on a critical hit, however. IMO that should just be weapon damage.

 

[Staffan]

Do you think the actual smite spells listed would be balanced if they could be used without an action and without preplanning like the substituted damage smite could?

Smite spells as bonus actions with a duration "until the start of your next turn" (though longer for their conditions) and no concentration would be great. Might even juice their damage up a little in that case, to compensate for no longer being guaranteed (or near-guaranteed) hits.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

5th level paladin using a greatsword. 10STR No feats or shenanigans, just class features and smites.

Two attacks.

With super double crit luck: 8d6+12d8 radiant (rerolling 1s and 2s)

With Crit and a hit: 6d6+9d8 (reroll 1, 2)

With Crit: 4d6 + 6d8 (reroll 1, 2)

With hit: 2d6 + 3d8 (reroll 1, 2)

Of the multiple scenarios 0, 20, 41, 61, or 82 damage (not factoring in the 1,2 reroll).

Show me another 5th level character that could come close to these numbers using just class abilities.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

That is a 1 in 400 scenario?

I am thinking about fireball and more than one creature.

Wouldn’t it depend on the scenario?

 

[Stormonu]

Smite can be insanely powerful if you focus on getting the most out of it. I had a Paladin player in one game: Longtooth Shifter Vengeance Paladin 9, Fighter 2, Gloom Stalker 3, Favored Soul 6 (at retirement).

They started out as a vengeance paladin and at 2nd level could smite twice on a round of combat. At 5th level that was 3 times. After advancing to 9, it was 4 times when hasted. Then they took 2 levels of Fighter for Action Surge to raise it to 6. Then 3 levels of Gloom Stalker to make it 8 in the first round. Then they added sorcerer levels to allow them to gain more smiting and some good combat spells. They were very strong throughout on the alpha strike round in big combats. They took down some pretty big enemies with high damage in the first round due primarily to this guy getting in there.

I'm surprised you had enough spell slots to power all 8 strikes!

 

[Bill Zebub]

5th level paladin using a greatsword. 10STR No feats or shenanigans, just class features and smites.

Two attacks.

With super double crit luck: 8d6+12d8 radiant (rerolling 1s and 2s)

With Crit and a hit: 6d6+9d8 (reroll 1, 2)

With Crit: 4d6 + 6d8 (reroll 1, 2)

With hit: 2d6 + 3d8 (reroll 1, 2)

Of the multiple scenarios 0, 20, 41, 61, or 82 damage (not factoring in the 1,2 reroll).

Show me another 5th level character that could come close to these numbers using just class abilities.

Zerker Barbarian with GWM, using Reckless Attacks and raging.

 

[Blue]

Smites are nice but far from overpowered...

...assuming you have a DM who doesn't vastly favor casters by running many fewer encounters per day then the designers calibrated for...

...which just about everyone does.

Basically, if (tier 2+) you're only seeing 2-3 encounters per day, smites are really nice. But all of the full casters are even nicer.