Dragonlance Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs On Krynn

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Talking to the Dragonlance Nexus, Dragonlance creators Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman revealed why the world of Krynn features no orcs -- in short, because they didn't want to copy Tolkien, and orcs were very much a 'Middle Earth' thing.

Gortack (Orcs).jpg

Weis told Trampas Whiteman that "Orcs were also viewed as very Middle Earth. We wanted something different." Hickman added that it was draconians which made Krynn stand out. Read more at the link below!

 

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If the player wants to play a renegade wizard but neither the player nor the DM is interested in having a magical hit squad show up then why not just come up with an in-game reason that the hit squad doesn't show up? I'm surprised that there seems to be this aversion to putting any effort at all into coming up with a fun and creative solution to something that would normally go against the setting's tropes or lore as if there aren't many alternatives to simply abolishing the lore altogether.

Maybe the Conclaves just have bigger fish to fry than the one player's lone renegade, maybe the PC has some sort of leverage over the Conclave (or a high ranking member) or some previous act allowed for a rare and unique truce of sorts, who knows. But these are all the same questions that would have to be answered in one form or another if a player wanted to have a goblin or draconian character that wanted to openly adventure in Ansalon.
I'm not averse to putting in effort to develop the stories I want to tell. If WotC's 5e Dragonlance doesn't do what I'd prefer and I still somehow feel like giving it a shot (rather than just stripping it for parts), I'll likely do just that and homebrew the hell out of my personal version of Krynn.

The issue from my perspective is not "I want to play a renegade wizard". It's, "if I want to play a wizard and I don't want to join the Mages of High Sorcery, I have no choice but to play a renegade wizard". I want options above and beyond the baseline of "join the setting's one legal wizarding order" or "become a wanted criminal".

I want rival organizations with differing philosophies that could add depth and nuance to wizards beyond what color robe they get assigned to wear.
 
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I actually don't know how bards were handled in 2e and 3e DL. And in 1e they were such a weird corner case that they would have to be dealt with on an individual basis. Have to look that up...
IIRC, they just weren't mentioned at all as being a thing the Wizard's Conclave were concerned with, which seemed odd. Maybe they mentioned it somewhere and I just missed it. I've been reading through a lot of the older material lately and haven't come across anything in the 1E or 2E setting books.
 

Okay, let me see if I can put this into words properly...

This isn't actually about orcs for me - the word "orcs" is a placeholder in this instance. Fundamentally, I couldn't care less whether they add orcs into Dragonlance or not, because at the end of the day, I've never particularly cared about Dragonlance.

It may simply be a case of wrong place, wrong time, but I only got into D&D with 3e and thus missed Dragonlance's heyday, and while I have delved into the proverbial mines when it comes to older settings that managed to catch my interest (Planescape, Dark Sun), I have heard very little about Dragonlance that makes me want to look into it beyond a surface level. Maybe Dragonlance fans are just bad at selling it to me, but everything I hear about Krynn makes the setting feel shallow, narrow, pared down to only what it needs to tell the story it is trying to tell, with no extraneous fat - like the writing philosophy behind Chekhov's Gun applied to worldbuilding. It doesn't sound like a fully realized world, just a narrative framework.

Want to be an arcane spellcaster? Congrats, you have exactly two choices: you either join the Wizards/Mages of High Sorcery or your character is hunted down like a mass murderer by the magical pre-crime thought police. Are there any other arcane orders? Nope, your options are join or die. Want to try making your wizard a well-intentioned extremist committed to doing terrible things for the greater good? Can't be done, because if they're Good they wear white and can't have Evil methods, if they're Evil they wear black and can't have Good motivations (plus no one trusts them), and if they're Neutral they wear red and can't have either, because either their Good ends or Evil means would disrupt the all-important Balance. And if anyone suggests maybe loosening the Alignment requirements to allow for more nuanced plots involving the Mages of High Sorcery, like WotC did in the first Krynn UA, they're shouted down for daring to alter the setting's canon. I love D&D Alignment - I'm a Planescape fan who swears by the Great Wheel - but the way Dragonlance seems to handle it leaves zero room for ambiguity and nuance, and I am someone who loves to play around with ambiguity and nuance.

Just about everything I've heard about the setting is like that to one degree or another. There are little nuggets that sound like they could be interesting - quite a few of them, actually - but they're invariably wound up tight in narrative devices that seem to only allow for a handful of predefined uses or outcomes. I would prefer something more flexible. Instead, I'm repeatedly told that the only thing that makes Dragonlance unique is its rigid adherence to its limitations. I don't want "orcs" because I want to play a big, muscly bruiser-type or want the orc's specific bundle of racial traits, I want a world that has consistently come off as one-note to me to feel more multi-dimensional.

Maybe I just don't know enough about Dragonlance, and there is stuff I would find compelling that I just haven't been exposed to - I am admittedly far from well read on the subject. Or maybe Dragonlance just isn't for me. But when I talk about figuring out a way to work orcs into the setting, what I mean is nothing has convinced me thus far that the setting, as is, will be useful to me for anything more than spare parts and I would like it to be more than that. I would like a setting that can tell the kind of stories classic Dragonlance fans enjoy while also having room for people like me who might want different stories, and if that requires revising the setting in some aspects, I don't feel that should necessarily be off the table.
Adventuring in Dragonlance is like adventuring in Star Wars.
 

what do you do with renegade sorcerers and warlocks? the threat they pose is no different, so having them all be part of the towers does make sense
There may be no such thing. Renegade wizards are a thing from the towers of high sorcery, but there doesn't have to be a similar thing for the others.
 

If the player wants to play a renegade wizard but neither the player nor the DM is interested in having a magical hit squad show up then why not just come up with an in-game reason that the hit squad doesn't show up? I'm surprised that there seems to be this aversion to putting any effort at all into coming up with a fun and creative solution to something that would normally go against the setting's tropes or lore as if there aren't many alternatives to simply abolishing the lore altogether.

Maybe the Conclaves just have bigger fish to fry than the one player's lone renegade, maybe the PC has some sort of leverage over the Conclave (or a high ranking member) or some previous act allowed for a rare and unique truce of sorts, who knows. But these are all the same questions that would have to be answered in one form or another if a player wanted to have a goblin or draconian character that wanted to openly adventure in Ansalon.
The recent Dragons of Deceit novel has an example of a renegade wizard that Dalamar is keeping an eye on, but he doesn't just go murder him for not joining. It isn't until he basically becomes a threat to existence that Dalamar takes any action against him.
 




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