Dragonlance Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs On Krynn

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Talking to the Dragonlance Nexus, Dragonlance creators Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman revealed why the world of Krynn features no orcs -- in short, because they didn't want to copy Tolkien, and orcs were very much a 'Middle Earth' thing.

Gortack (Orcs).jpg

Weis told Trampas Whiteman that "Orcs were also viewed as very Middle Earth. We wanted something different." Hickman added that it was draconians which made Krynn stand out. Read more at the link below!

 

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"This is Bob the orc, he was born in Neverwinter. When he came of age, he came upon a Spelljammer ship captain and joined their crew. They then Spelljammed (someone please tell me if this word is actually a verb or if there's something else I should be saying) their way off of Faerun and encountered pirates. Their ship was damaged in a fight and crashed on Krynn, landing in the sea near Kalaman. Washing up on the shore as the only survivor, he was found by a Kender who wanted to show him Kalaman because they had the best thing that Kender likes. On the way there, they come upon a draconian patrol attacking some refugees fleeing towards Kalaman and jump in to save them. Victorious, they escort the refugees back to Kalaman, who tell stories of Bob's valor. While the Knights are suspicious of the outsider, they can use any fighting man they can get and take Bob in."

Player gets to play orc, orc doesn't need to be explained in Krynnish lore.
Yep. Or Bob wandered through a portal in Sigil, or activated a strange device found in the ruins of Myth Drannor, or... There are lots of ways to get an individual orc to Krynn if the DM is okay with it.
 

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Yep. Or Bob wandered through a portal in Sigil, or activated a strange device found in the ruins of Myth Drannor, or... There are lots of ways to get an individual orc to Krynn if the DM is okay with it.
I don’t think anyone ever said otherwise
 

Yep. Or Bob wandered through a portal in Sigil, or activated a strange device found in the ruins of Myth Drannor, or... There are lots of ways to get an individual orc to Krynn if the DM is okay with it.

It feels like the inhabitants of a world knowing that there is life on other planets or across a multiverse (or on another continent even) would be a big deal as far as how the people of that world viewed themselves and possibly their religions.
 

The next will be to complain because there aren't centaurs in "the Witcher", dragonborn in "lord of the rings", halflings in "Dragon Age" or dwarves in "Game of Thrones" or reptilian kobolds in "Wheel of Time".
 

Quite frankly, I didn't like the putting dragonborn in Eberron. The resistance to orcs in dragonlance is the same reason I don't want Jedi in faerun. It's a retcon that undermines decades of there being no orcs there. It changes Canon for no reason except to make all places feel the same. It's OK to add flavour and keep it consistent. If you want an orc equivalent player race in dragonlance, minotaurs exist. Play that and do something new. Then it will feel like a unique experience.
Okay, let me see if I can put this into words properly...

This isn't actually about orcs for me - the word "orcs" is a placeholder in this instance. Fundamentally, I couldn't care less whether they add orcs into Dragonlance or not, because at the end of the day, I've never particularly cared about Dragonlance.

It may simply be a case of wrong place, wrong time, but I only got into D&D with 3e and thus missed Dragonlance's heyday, and while I have delved into the proverbial mines when it comes to older settings that managed to catch my interest (Planescape, Dark Sun), I have heard very little about Dragonlance that makes me want to look into it beyond a surface level. Maybe Dragonlance fans are just bad at selling it to me, but everything I hear about Krynn makes the setting feel shallow, narrow, pared down to only what it needs to tell the story it is trying to tell, with no extraneous fat - like the writing philosophy behind Chekhov's Gun applied to worldbuilding. It doesn't sound like a fully realized world, just a narrative framework.

Want to be an arcane spellcaster? Congrats, you have exactly two choices: you either join the Wizards/Mages of High Sorcery or your character is hunted down like a mass murderer by the magical pre-crime thought police. Are there any other arcane orders? Nope, your options are join or die. Want to try making your wizard a well-intentioned extremist committed to doing terrible things for the greater good? Can't be done, because if they're Good they wear white and can't have Evil methods, if they're Evil they wear black and can't have Good motivations (plus no one trusts them), and if they're Neutral they wear red and can't have either, because either their Good ends or Evil means would disrupt the all-important Balance. And if anyone suggests maybe loosening the Alignment requirements to allow for more nuanced plots involving the Mages of High Sorcery, like WotC did in the first Krynn UA, they're shouted down for daring to alter the setting's canon. I love D&D Alignment - I'm a Planescape fan who swears by the Great Wheel - but the way Dragonlance seems to handle it leaves zero room for ambiguity and nuance, and I am someone who loves to play around with ambiguity and nuance.

Just about everything I've heard about the setting is like that to one degree or another. There are little nuggets that sound like they could be interesting - quite a few of them, actually - but they're invariably wound up tight in narrative devices that seem to only allow for a handful of predefined uses or outcomes. I would prefer something more flexible. Instead, I'm repeatedly told that the only thing that makes Dragonlance unique is its rigid adherence to its limitations. I don't want "orcs" because I want to play a big, muscly bruiser-type or want the orc's specific bundle of racial traits, I want a world that has consistently come off as one-note to me to feel more multi-dimensional.

Maybe I just don't know enough about Dragonlance, and there is stuff I would find compelling that I just haven't been exposed to - I am admittedly far from well read on the subject. Or maybe Dragonlance just isn't for me. But when I talk about figuring out a way to work orcs into the setting, what I mean is nothing has convinced me thus far that the setting, as is, will be useful to me for anything more than spare parts and I would like it to be more than that. I would like a setting that can tell the kind of stories classic Dragonlance fans enjoy while also having room for people like me who might want different stories, and if that requires revising the setting in some aspects, I don't feel that should necessarily be off the table.
 
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That prohibition never made sense to me. I'm pretty sure I would have ignored it back then had anyone wanted to play one. A race not being there could make sense. Ki(monk power) not working right could make sense, though that one stretched it more than a bit for me. No one being trained to kill people? That one I didn't buy at all.
I'll be frank, I have less of a problem with a race not being in a setting (though I am not convinced by the "this race didn't exist in 2e, so it's banned" rationale) but I'm pretty adamant about the current PHB classes being open. If only because WotC has only given us one official new class since the PHB, so while there are plenty of racial options, there are only 12 class options and removing one or more represents a far bigger loss of options than removing a race or two.
 

I would like a setting that can tell the kind of stories classic Dragonlance fans enjoy while also having room for people like me who might want different stories, and if that requires revising the setting in some aspects, I don't feel that should necessarily be off the table.
You can tell all kinds of stories in DL, but if for you this requires getting rid of everything that makes it DL, to the point of not having the Towers of High Sorcery and whatever else, then why even bother placing your story in DL? Just leave it in FR or wherever.

At that point it is impossible to have your story in DL and have a DL fan enjoy it as a DL story, because you are too uncompromising
They might still enjoy it as a generic fantasy story in a generic fantasy world (FR)
 

You can tell all kinds of stories in DL, but if for you this requires getting rid of everything that makes it DL, to the point of not having the Towers of High Sorcery and whatever else, then why even bother placing your story in DL? Just leave it in FR or wherever.
I'm not saying the Towers of High Sorcery have to go. I'm saying I want options for people who don't buy into the High Sorcery mindset beyond just rolling up a new character after the magical hit squad shows up.
 

I'm not saying the Towers of High Sorcery have to go. I'm saying I want options for people who don't buy into the High Sorcery mindset beyond just rolling up a new character after the magical hit squad shows up.
If the players have agreed to play in a setting, then it feels like they should make characters that fit that setting.

If a few/several/many players don't want to be in a setting then it feels like the DM making the pitch for what they would like to run should pick a different one or someone else should offer to run.

If one player can't make themself go with a second choice or try something different one time, then that feels like a them problem to me.

EDIT: Insert standard verbiage about DM/Player flexibility and negotiation to see if something can be made to fit.
 
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I'm not saying the Towers of High Sorcery have to go. I'm saying I want options for people who don't buy into the High Sorcery mindset beyond just rolling up a new character after the magical hit squad shows up.
that is the same thing, might as well remove them then

Now, at your table you can do whatever you want, but since you said ‘a DL fan can enjoy’, presumably as a DL story, I doubt you can accomplish that, unless they are very forgiving and just happy to fight some draconians or whatever DL thing you did not rip out or mutate to make it unrecognizable

You still have plenty of options to twist things however. You can make the hit squad not find them (assuming they try to stay hidden), or have them not be enough of a nuisance to bother (assuming that is what they are), but if neither is true, someone should absolutely find them - whether that means that someone wins the encounter is another matter
 
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