Dragonlance Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs On Krynn

Talking to the Dragonlance Nexus, Dragonlance creators Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman revealed why the world of Krynn features no orcs -- in short, because they didn't want to copy Tolkien, and orcs were very much a 'Middle Earth' thing.

Weis told Trampas Whiteman that "Orcs were also viewed as very Middle Earth. We wanted something different." Hickman added that it was draconians which made Krynn stand out. Read more at the link below!

Why are there no Orcs in Krynn? Weis and Hickman give us the answer! - Dragonlance Nexus

Dragonhelm gets the scoop from Weis and Hickman on why there are no orcs in Krynn. Read More

dragonlancenexus.com

 

[Morrus]

I have to admit I am surprised by how strongly people feel about whether there should be orcs in Dragonlance. It’s something I find it hard to have a strong opinion on. I’m ok with them not being there (in fact I literally don’t care) but if a player wanted to play one, I’d be ok with that too. To me it’s such a trivial element of the setting. I guess different things are important to different people.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'd argue there's one: Person who wants to play an orc. Because the thing remains, hobgoblins have a different vibe from orcs, trading a lot of that "Just making do with what you've got" energy for, well, being uruk'hai. Sure, in game they're similar, but hobgoblins are fairly stuck to the D&D mold whereas, orcs have a wider audience. Much like "The guy who only ever plays elves" is a thing, there's a 'Guy who only ever plays orcs'

Mind, yeah, not normally there, but they're loose canon there, just like how Kenku are still kicking on Athas. Just say "Oh yeah, they come from Orclandia, its a far off island the minotaurs sail off to and bring back weird stuff from every now and again. No one knows their origin"


I will argue against this on one very silly, but incredibly true point:

i have seen a lot more orc fanart of the... NSFW variety on twitter than I have any halfling artwork. There is a much bigger orc audience.

So it is just asthetics then. Fair enough, but not a good reason for me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

man 1st if we discount aesthetics why again?? have you never had a friend pick a character cause they just bought/painted a cool looking mini?
2nd ASI isn't the only mechanic for races... Menacing, Relentless endurance and savage attack may all or in some combo some appeal to them
3rd why are we removing ALL cultural aspects the PHB is pretty generic but it still gives some cool ideas:

That paragraph is going to cease to exist in less than two years, along with half-orc as a heritage option (the new version will be, surprise, just aesthetics). Several things in that description aren't going to fly for the orc in 2024's 6e. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I have to admit I am surprised by how strongly people feel about whether there should be orcs in Dragonlance. It’s something I find it hard to have a strong opinion on. I’m ok with them not being there (in fact I literally don’t care) but if a player wanted to play one, I’d be ok with that too. To me it’s such a trivial element of the setting. I guess different things are important to different people.

The disagreement lies with those who are against the inclusion of a sidebar reflecting the native races of Krynn. That is the bizarre part. Apparently that acknowledgement alone is so harmful to the new players it requires a 100-page thread discussion.

 

[Maxperson]

Everything you can fit under Dwarf works perfectly well with human instead of dwarf as well

Stout underground fellow that sees well in pitch dark and loves mining for gems and ores.

Not everything. There is a lot of overlap, though, which is why you need to make the other races, including orcs, a distinctive stereotype. Once you broaden orcs out they become mostly just another human and we already have a lot of those.

And like, most other races in the game. No reason to single out orc for it

Not making them like dozens of other races that are mostly just human is a reason.

Orcs are a wider fantasy Thing and got their own fans and ideas. Mind, most of the evolution as orcs having that evolved outside of D&D and is due to Warhammer and Warcraft being around

Beholders are an intelligent, sentient race that has fans with ideas. Why single out orcs like this? Beholders and every other sentient creature with fans also needs to be taken from evil monster to fight and turned into a playable race, right?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

except the 'what they feel is right' we disagree on... I am betting (and hopeing) they don't cut huge parts out of the PHB... the fact that sorcerers and clerics will be allowed make me think I am right.

I'm sure they won't "cut" "huge" parts. But I'm sure the book will have a section on races, and under half orc it will mention that orcs are not native to Krynn.

And, of course, sorcerers were never "cut" from Krynn. You can't cut something that didn't exist at the time of writing. But orcs did exist, and where deliberately written out.

Clerics where never cut either. They had a temporary story-related bar on being able to cast spells.

 

[Kai Lord]

I have to admit I am surprised by how strongly people feel about whether there should be orcs in Dragonlance. It’s something I find it hard to have a strong opinion on. I’m ok with them not being there (in fact I literally don’t care) but if a player wanted to play one, I’d be ok with that too. To me it’s such a trivial element of the setting. I guess different things are important to different people.

I think it's more just people arguing against going against the established lore of a 38 year old setting in an official sourcebook. For one it indicates a lack of knowledge and/or passion for the setting by those in charge which is concerning on multiple levels and I think it also fractures the fanbase and creates division where none need be there.

I just don't see there being any controversy if they just let Krynn be Krynn with the knowledge that any given gaming table can tweak the setting to add or subtract whatever elements they like. People understand and accept that collectively and individually on a level that typically doesn't foster any consternation as opposed to to rubber stamping larger thematic or aesthetic changes right in the main setting book.

 

[Maxperson]

Mind, yeah, not normally there, but they're loose canon there, just like how Kenku are still kicking on Athas. Just say "Oh yeah, they come from Orclandia, its a far off island the minotaurs sail off to and bring back weird stuff from every now and again. No one knows their origin"

Not Orclandia. Zoolandia. The island ruled by Zoolander, where the guy who only plays orcs, the guy who only plays vampires, the guy who only plays beholders and the guy who only plays sentient oozes live.

People that rare don't need to be taken into consideration by the books. They're a case by case DM makes the decision thing, like playing an unusual race in Theros.

 

[Velderan]

The disagreement lies with those who are against the inclusion of a sidebar reflecting the native races of Krynn. That is the bizarre part. Apparently that acknowledgement alone is so harmful to the new players it requires a 100-page thread discussion.

It's baffling really. The argument seems to keep drifting back to "they shouldn't ban them" when I think the other side of the debate seems to be more in line with how they handled race in Theros/Ravnica: this is what's normal here, but your DM can allow whatever they want. It literally does nothing to prevent anyone from creating what fits their table while respecting the source material they're drawing from.

 

[Maxperson]

What is even MORE interesting about it is that Half-orcs and Assassins were sort of done away with in AD&D 2e at that point unless you chose the grandfather clause to implement them.

There were no assassins in 1e Krynn, either. Whoever wrote that just wanted to break the Krynn no no list it seems.