Dragonlance Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs On Krynn

Talking to the Dragonlance Nexus, Dragonlance creators Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman revealed why the world of Krynn features no orcs -- in short, because they didn't want to copy Tolkien, and orcs were very much a 'Middle Earth' thing.

Weis told Trampas Whiteman that "Orcs were also viewed as very Middle Earth. We wanted something different." Hickman added that it was draconians which made Krynn stand out. Read more at the link below!

Why are there no Orcs in Krynn? Weis and Hickman give us the answer! - Dragonlance Nexus

Dragonhelm gets the scoop from Weis and Hickman on why there are no orcs in Krynn. Read More

dragonlancenexus.com

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"The setting won't fall apart, but it will feel different."

it will feel different how? and then did it feel different the first 2 years when half orc assassines where PHB legal? did it feel different when a canon novel HAD a half orc assassin?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think the argument is that Weiss and Hickman created Dragonlance specifically for D&D under the supervision of TSR. However it broken away from many D&D core elements at the time (no orc, no half orcs, no clerics, paladins, and ranger during the War of the Lance, most random evil humaniods absent from dungeons). Dragonlance was created for 1e D&D but cut a bunch of D&Disms.

Whether or not W&H replaced the missing elements with new ones or had good enough lore to ignore it is unknown to me as I was a baby in 1984 (was Minotaur PCs allowed in 1980s). Clearly Gen Xers and Baby Boomers loved it at the time.

However clearly WOTC is going out of their way to say how 5e DL allows previously banned classes and how newer races and classes would work in Krynn.

Minotaurs were an available race in 1987's Dragonlance Adventures, so yes.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I'm still looking for an answer for what makes orcs worth including for worldbuilding purposes.

a player wants to play one.

What do they bring to the table now that their traditional purpose is gone?

lets take a look at what the PHB says

When alliances between humans and orcs are sealed by marriages, half-orcs are born. Some half-orcs rise to become proud chiefs of orc tribes, their human blood giving them an edge over their full-blooded orc rivals. Some venture into the world to prove their worth among humans and other more civilized races. Many of these become adventurers, achieving greatness for their mighty deeds and notoriety for their barbaric customs and savage fury.

then there are the mechanical bits no other race gets

• Relentless Endurance. When you are reduced to 0 hit points but not killed outright, you can drop to 1 hit point instead. You can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest.

• Savage Attacks. When you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack, you can roll one of the weapon's damage dice one additional time and add it to the extra damage of the critical hit.

then there is the astatic

Getting up after being knocked to zero doesn't cut it for me.

okay no one asked for you to get it, just that you get some players want them in the setting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

it will feel different how? and then did it feel different the first 2 years when half orc assassines where PHB legal? did it feel different when a canon novel HAD a half orc assassin?

The half-orc was a mistake. The author didn't get the memo.

 

[Velderan]

it will feel different how? and then did it feel different the first 2 years when half orc assassines where PHB legal? did it feel different when a canon novel HAD a half orc assassin?

It actually did because I remember reading it and wondering where did this character come from since literally every other character in a DL novel had come from somewhere that had been explained or at least hinted at. Having read a bunch of DL novels and knowing what we now know about TSR at the time, you quickly realize they were churning them out so fast to keep the lights on and authors weren't always given the time to research the setting they were writing about.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I believe it was very much intentional. Prior to the war, there is no "nearby enemy". The world is peaceful, and there is nothing around scarier than a bear. Thus, Weiss and Hickman wanted to emphasise the difference between a world at peace and a world at war.

so if orcs are not enemies (at least no more then elf or dwarf) then its not an issue right?

 

[Micah Sweet]

a player wants to play one.

lets take a look at what the PHB says

then there are the mechanical bits no other race gets

then there is the astatic

okay no one asked for you to get it, just that you get some players want them in the setting.

A player wants to play them is not a reason to change an established setting if the DM doesn't agree.

That PHB is set to be demolished. Who knows what they'll put in its place?

Players and DMs who want them in the setting can add them. I see no reason to shoe-horn in a people who are explicitly excluded from a published setting with a long history.

I really hope the note from D&D Beyond is included in the book. That way we both get what we want. I assume you also want us both to get what we want.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Does Legolas need to be an elf? Does Frodo need to be a hobbit? Does Drizzt need to be a drow? I'm sure nothing about them with change if you made them all humans or gnomes...

legolas the archer with keen senses and supirior dexderity can be any race
Drizzt the out cast from an evil cult/city for being good who is an expert swordsman and becomes as ranger can be any race.

And let's replace "Krynn" with "personal homebrew he's been running since he started DMing". And you get a little closer to what I've seen over the years. And if that setting has no orcs, then barring finding a new DM (or convincing them to switch settings) you are sol. .

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Not really. The goblin/draconian part shifts to what role do they fill that's missing? A generic half-orcs out of the PHB isn't anything unique you couldn't cover with races already present in DL.

I can't beleive in 2022 we still think the only use orcs can have in any setting is 'minion of the dark lord'

 

[GMforPowergamers]

‘We did not want orcs’ never falls apart

it does the moment they are no longer in charge