D&D (2024) December 1st UA Spell changes

[GMforPowergamers]

I also feel the guidance in the last packet was a lot better. It just did the job, removed any arguments at the table, gave a solid benefit, reigned it in to actual cantrip levels.

This version returns to spam but now adds arguments about how close the party is at all times.

Player: "Of course I waiting for the cleric to be nearby before I climbed that wall!"
"Of course the cleric was right near me when I bluffed that guy"
"I'm going to disable this trap, oh cleric buddy, come here!"

Its just silly. the last version was much better.

the only thing is the LAST one i didn't like the 1/day per person thing on a cantrip... it turned an at will into 2-4/day

 

[tetrasodium]

It is some kind of tradition, that the relative good damage spells are 1st, 3rd and 6th level. In between it is more utility, defense and buffs.

I think that the range helps there. Guidance only works ten feet so hammerspace follower PCs are just going to be "nope out of range" & encouraged to be proactively involved. shifting that to 5ft would work better in not painting the GM doing that as adversarial because it's a spell primarily used out of combat when ToTM quantum distances kick i Resistance having the 10ft has similar but it's primarily useful in combat so I don't think a drop to 5ft is appropriate.

 

[TwoSix]

The worst part of the guidance is the constant spam. I'd make it so any one target can only benefit it from once per long rest.

Make it a minute casting time, and everyone within 60' can use the 1d4 once on a skill check of their choice in the next 8 hours.

 

[Gadget]

I see the debate on guidance continues. It seems to me that the devs may be trying their hand at making many of these cantrips mechanically similar, so it is the same basic design for all of these cantrips. We'll have to wait and see True Strike and Blade Ward to see if I'm right.

I don't think the change to Spiritual Weapon makes it a bad spell, per se, but it will certainly be used less. I'm also not sure I buy that Spiritual Weapon is that iconic, unless by that it is meant that it has been in the cleric repertoire since at least the AD&D/BCMI days. I don't remember it being that much of a "go to" spell for clerics in previous editions, but in 5e has become much more prominent, mostly due to lacking Concentration.

IMHO, the Banishment change is more egregious. It seems that few creatures are going to fail their Save 10 times in a row to actually be banished to their home plane. Granted, PHB Banishment was probably in need of toning down more so than most of the other spells changed, but I don't think this was the way to do it. They could have reigned it in by making it more niche, such that it only worked on extraplanar creatures to begin with. This would have made it powerful, but a universal go to for most situations with a tough opponent that does not have Legendary Resistances. They have a template: a similar concept is in place with the Good & Evil line of spells.

The irony is that outside of 5e, Banishment was somewhat limited, while spells like Protection from Good & Evil were much more universally applicable in play. Now that is reversed. Why not bring it in line by limiting to the creature types in the Good & Evil spells?

 

[Greg Benage]

Aid ANOYS me... as a cleric bard or artificer it was a good 2nd level spell not broken and not a gurantee but a good one, I can't see me taking it ever as a mass barksin/heroism.

Oh wow, missed that change. RIP.

 

[Xamnam]

IMHO, the Banishment change is more egregious. It seems that few creatures are going to fail their Save 10 times in a row to actually be banished to their home plane.

Yeah, I understand most of the changes, and even kind of like giving the creature an opportunity to break the banishment more than once, but having it happen every round makes it very unlikely to stick.

 

[OB1]

Yeah, I understand most of the changes, and even kind of like giving the creature an opportunity to break the banishment more than once, but having it happen every round makes it very unlikely to stick.

Maybe a better implementation would be to only give the creature a 2nd save before they are perma-banished at the end of the minute?

 

[Amrûnril]

This version of Guidance seems quite a bit stronger than the PHB version. Changing it to a reaction means you no longer need to know in advance when someone is going to make an ability check, which was previously the biggest constraint on usage.

The new version of Resistance is similar in terms of wording, but I think it's actually quite different in practice. Ability checks are most often used out of combat, meaning that using a reaction isn't generally a significant trade-off. Saving throws are more often used in combat, so the action economy acts as a balancing mechanism for Resistance in a way that it doesn't for Guidance.

 

[mellored]

The worst part of the guidance is the constant spam. I'd make it so any one target can only benefit it from once per long rest.

Make it a minute casting time, and everyone within 60' can use the 1d4 once on a skill check of their choice in the next 8 hours.

Guidance only changes a 1 out of 10 rolls.

So you would need to be making 20+ skill checks a day for it to be anything like 'spam'. And, in my experience, characters rarely do more than 5 skill checks a day (unless it's a rogue sneaking).

In a party or 5, that means you benefit twice per day. So not worth the extra paperwork to track who got the benefits.

Also, I'm not put off if everyone keeps asking the cleric to come closer for guidance.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Guidance only changes a 1 out of 10 rolls.

So you would need to be making 20+ skill checks a day for it to be anything like 'spam'. And, in my experience, characters rarely do more than 5 skill checks a day (unless it's a rogue sneaking).

mid dungeon crawl or in a combat heavy campaign I can see that... in a social or exploration heavey campaign you might make 200 skill checks before your first attack roll. I and a few others on here talk about social based D&D games where there is almost no combat.