D&D (2024) December 1st UA Spell changes

[James Gasik]

What is the black robe wizard?

Oh it's a level 1 Feat from the new Dragonlance stuff; you gain the ability to spend Hit Dice to deal extra damage to a target who fails a save against one of your spells that deal damage.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

What is the black robe wizard?

when you deal damage with a spell on a failed save you can spend a HD roll it and add it to damage...

my go to evil thought is disintegrate

this spell must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the target takes 10d6 + 40 force damage

take a level or two of fighter (make it 3 take eldritch knight and you only lost 2 caster levels) and you can throw an extra d10 on there.

 

[James Gasik]

when you deal damage with a spell on a failed save you can spend a HD roll it and add it to damage...

my go to evil thought is disintegrate

take a level or two of fighter (make it 3 take eldritch knight and you only lost 2 caster levels) and you can throw an extra d10 on there.

Granted, the wording could use some work. As written, you could use it with something like Wrathful Smite, and it's not clear if that's intended.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Granted, the wording could use some work. As written, you could use it with something like Wrathful Smite, and it's not clear if that's intended.

yeah paly/warlock is bad enough, throw in this feat is down right evil

 

[Stalker0]

Would that be the summon celestial that costs 500gp per cast, has 40 HP, and does slightly less average damage than that spiritual weapon (which should have been 5d8+mod; nice catch Pauln6)? You're right, spiritual weapon is WAY better. And it's a bonus action, even on the round that you cast it!

1) The 500 gp is a 1 time cost, not ongoing.

2) The celestial gets 2 attacks. Its doing 2d6 + 7, or 4d6 + 14, so roughly 8d6 damage, just sliiightly more than the 5d8 + 5 of spiritual weapon.

 

[Clint_L]

1) The 500 gp is a 1 time cost, not ongoing.

2) The celestial gets 2 attacks. Its doing 2d6 + 7, or 4d6 + 14, so roughly 8d6 damage, just sliiightly more than the 5d8 + 5 of spiritual weapon

[deleted]

 

[Gorck]

1) The 500 gp is a 1 time cost, not ongoing.

I'm not necessarily taking a side in this argument, but i wanted to point out the the 500gp cost isn't just 500gp or 500gp-worth of gems. It's specifically a "golden reliquary," the availability of which is DM dependent. The group's Cleric might not be able to simply stroll on down to the corner store and pick one up. That is all; please continue this lively debate.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

More specifically....

+1d4 to 3 attacks dealing 1d8+3 damage
= 3*0.125 * 7.5
= 2.8125 extra damage
Vs
1 attack dealing 1d8+3 damage.
7.5 * 50% to hit + 4.5 * .05
= 3.975 extra damage
Vs +1d4 to 3 attacks dealing 2d6+3 damage
3*0.125 * 10
= 3.75 extra damage

So I was wrong
Spiritual Weapon does more damage than bless on 3 guys with mauls. Though the extra save makes it still the better choice in that situation.

You did not factor in the initial vost of 1 action to activate. So another advantage for spiritual weapon.

Oh, and bless got a little downgrade by removing the - 5/+10 feats, where it was helping to remove the penalty.

 

[Greg Benage]

Oh, and bless got a little downgrade by removing the - 5/+10 feats, where it was helping to remove the penalty.

Good example of how it’s so hard to really evaluate these little changes without the full context.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The question I'm increasingly asking myself: If the rationale for the aid and spiritual weapon nerfs is that they became "automatic" or "must-have" choices, what are the bless and spirit guardians nerfs going to look like?

If we haven't seen the nerf Spirit Guardians needed then the only other one it possibly needs is called "Not allowing the defense action while it's up". The buff it's already had is called "Not allowing it to stack with Spiritual Weapon, allowing the cleric to simultaneously have great single target and significant AoE damage." Spirit Guardians basically requires you to get into the face of your enemies in order to do half a fireball's damage per round until you fail a concentration check. By level 7 (8 in 5e) that 3d8 is the same damage you're doing with Sacred Flame (although SG does do half damage on a save) and about half the damage output of a fireball per round. Spirit Guardians might be the star - but it's stacking with Spiritual Weapon that pushes it over the top.

Aid by contrast worked as a poor man's Mass Healing Word - and I think that's what they've stopped. It's either temp hit points or a one minute casting time so you can't use it in combat.

And Bless? I expect Bless to be unchanged. It might be powerful, but it's also a team spell that doesn't make the cleric the star of the show unlike the way Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon stacked.