D&D (2024) December 1st UA Spell changes

[Greg Benage]

But yea. Bless inherently scales with ally levels. So at level 5+, bless will do more than a level 2 spiritual weapon. Even with 1d8 allies.

Yes, that was my only point, so your own comparison would imply that it's a compelling choice at 3rd and 4th character levels, but wouldn't be thereafter. That seems about right, though it's clearly less compelling to me even at 3rd and 4th character level.

 

[Pauln6]

They could make it something simply like:

Range: 60, one target making a skill check gains the benefit of the help action.

Aka the benefit is the range and that you can help without needing proficiency, but otherwise it’s nothing another pc couldn’t do in most situations. That’s more cantrip appropriate to me. It’s still spammy but at least it’s not breaking bounded accuracy

I think that enhancing the Help action so that you don't need proficiency in the skill to grant advantage seems pretty thematic and potentially useful, plus slightly better than the non magical help action. Plus it should only apply to a task once: if you cannot listen to the wisdom of the gods to succeed then the gods cannot help you further. I would probably bring the range down to 30 feet or the same as the Rogue subclass.

 

[mellored]

Yes, that was my only point, so your own comparison would imply that it's a compelling choice at 3rd and 4th character levels, but wouldn't be thereafter. That seems about right, though it's clearly less compelling to me even at 3rd and 4th character level.

Well, I also assumed you cast before battle, since bless takes an action but you can sw + cantrip.
And I also assumed you did not have other competition for your bonus action (healing word).

But yeah. I don't see a lot of reason to up cast spiritual weapon. Probably use spiritual guardian in your 3rd slot against groups. Healing word in your 2nd, and bless in 1st against solo or casters.

 

[Greg Benage]

But yeah. I don't see a lot of reason to up cast spiritual weapon. Probably use spiritual guardian in your 3rd slot against groups. Healing word in your 2nd, and bless in 1st against solo or casters.

This is exactly where I land when we start talking about actual "must-have" cleric spells. Bless, healing word, spirit guardians and probably revivify. You could do a replacement-level job of clericking in 5e with just those spells. So if "must-have" is your guiding design consideration, this is where I'd expect the nerf bat to fall.

 

[mellored]

This is exactly where I land when we start talking about actual "must-have" cleric spells. Bless, healing word, spirit guardians and probably revivify. You could do a replacement-level job of clericking in 5e with just those spells. So if "must-have" is your guiding design consideration, this is where I'd expect the nerf bat to fall.

Stuff like Blindness/Deafness and incite greed can be more powerful if they land.

I just don't like all or nothing spells.

like if hold person started with restrained, and then roll to see if they are paralyzed or free over the next turn or 2. Or something.

 

[James Gasik]

Yes we are kinda guessing at intent of the change & lack of clues is making it tough to weigh in. Wrt hit dice cost though I'm not sure those would be effective. Sure it puts an upper limit on the use, but the limit really only matters early tier one before you hit an unlikely number of failed checks per long rest as things are... There are extraordinarily few things that consume hit dice & even having as few as zero unspent hit dice has no real impact on anything at all.

Don't you only regain half your Hit Dice with a long rest though? So at some point continued use of Guidance would be problematic.

 

[tetrasodium]

Don't you only regain half your Hit Dice with a long rest though? So at some point continued use of Guidance would be problematic.

Not anymore...

Spoiler: Cleric packet Long rest rules

LONG REST
A Long Rest is a period of extended downtime—
at least 8 hours long—available to any creature.
During a Long Rest, you sleep for at least 6 hours
and perform no more than 2 hours of light
activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or
standing watch.
BENEFITS OF THE REST
To start a Long Rest, you must have at least 1 Hit
Point. When you finish the rest, you gain the
following benefits:
Regain All HP. You regain all lost Hit Points.
Regain All HD. You regain all spent Hit Dice.
HP Max Restored. If your Hit Point Maximum
was reduced, it returns to normal.
Ability Scores Restored. If any of your Ability
Scores were reduced, they return to normal.
Exhaustion Reduced. If you are Exhausted,
your level of exhaustion decreases by 1.
After you finish a Long Rest, you must wait at
least 16 hours before starting another one.
INTERRUPTING THE REST
A Long Rest is stopped by the following
interruptions:
• Combat
• Casting a spell other than a 0-level spell
• 1 hour of walking or other physical exertion
If the rest was at least 1 hour long before the
interruption, you gain the benefits of a Short
Rest.
You can resume a Long Rest immediately after
an interruption. If you do so, the rest requires 1
additional hour to finish per interruption.

 

[Dausuul]

The summon celestial in my version of the game doesn't consume the component, and a one-time cost of 500gp typically isn't a problem for 9th+ level characters in my games. The 40 hp is awesome, because it implies the celestial can do something more useful than simple DPR, i.e. tank damage that someone in the party would otherwise take. It can control its space and deal opportunity attacks. It can be buffed, which is especially great with auras. It deals melee or ranged radiant damage every round for an hour at no action economy cost at all, and can also grant temp hp and heal. Note that it takes an action to cast, but then the celestial takes its turn right after yours and can immediately take its two attacks per round. It can also be upcast, but it actually scales well: for example, when I cast it at 6th level, it gets three attacks per round.

You can also use it as a flying mount.

 

[James Gasik]

Not anymore...

Spoiler: Cleric packet Long rest rules

LONG REST
A Long Rest is a period of extended downtime—
at least 8 hours long—available to any creature.
During a Long Rest, you sleep for at least 6 hours
and perform no more than 2 hours of light
activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or
standing watch.
BENEFITS OF THE REST
To start a Long Rest, you must have at least 1 Hit
Point. When you finish the rest, you gain the
following benefits:
Regain All HP. You regain all lost Hit Points.
Regain All HD. You regain all spent Hit Dice.
HP Max Restored. If your Hit Point Maximum
was reduced, it returns to normal.
Ability Scores Restored. If any of your Ability
Scores were reduced, they return to normal.
Exhaustion Reduced. If you are Exhausted,
your level of exhaustion decreases by 1.
After you finish a Long Rest, you must wait at
least 16 hours before starting another one.
INTERRUPTING THE REST
A Long Rest is stopped by the following
interruptions:
• Combat
• Casting a spell other than a 0-level spell
• 1 hour of walking or other physical exertion
If the rest was at least 1 hour long before the
interruption, you gain the benefits of a Short
Rest.
You can resume a Long Rest immediately after
an interruption. If you do so, the rest requires 1
additional hour to finish per interruption.

Oh well, huh. So much for that, I guess, unless more uses for Hit Dice show up (like the Black Robe Wizard).

 

[tetrasodium]

Oh well, huh. So much for that, I guess, unless more uses for Hit Dice show up (like the Black Robe Wizard).

What is the black robe wizard?

Edit: I think they might be going for using exertion as the gotta tip the devil & the devil won that fiddle contestmechanic since it only recovers one point on a LR unless you are a level 11+ ranger for one more. Linking guidance to an exhaustion hit for that d4 would probably balance it