D&D 5E Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[Micah Sweet]

They have the license. DS fans probably (I'm guessing here) would like to have DS available on the DMsGuild I would think. Paizo doesn't have any licenses...

Yeah, I actually don't care what WotC makes out of Dark Sun. But I would like them to make something, just so the setting could go up on the DMsGuild.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I’m sure they would. And they’re being told quite honestly and clearly why that isn’t going to happen.

Not sure why you’re bringing Paizo into this. They’ve clearly stated that they will not use slavery in their products going forward. Which means they will never rerelease any earlier products that used slavery without excising slavery from it.

And they get a hearty pat onthe back and a big thumbs up from the fandom.

WotC does EXACTLY the same thing. And we have multiple threads shouting from the rooftops that WotC is stoopid.

The irony here could built steam engines.

I never patted Paizo's back for that.

 

[MGibster]

But you're playing one. Presumably, you have a background and personality for that character that you put effort and thought into--far more than you would have if you had passively watched a TV show or movie.

And? It's still a work of fiction and I don't generally have a problem separating it from reality.

I take it, if your character dies, you have zero feelings about it at all?

Often times I think my characters' death if friggin awesome.

I don't think that is Faolyn's position. Rather I think Faolyn is saying that the immersive nature of RPGs means any feelings the subject matter might evoke will be that much more intense for people.

Blackleaf! Nooooooooo!

 

[Bedrockgames]

Blackleaf! Nooooooooo!

?

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

So what is the upside for WotC to produce DS?

And how should I handle an AL table where I’m going to be repeatedly playing either slaves or slave owners, many of which are not the villains in the game but are actively allies to the party - that shop keeper after all routinely beats his slaves but, oh right, we can’t show that. This is kinder, gentler slavery of course.

But me, generic white dude, dming at a public table with strangers is expected to take on these roles, repeatedly, all the while sitting across the table from people who very well might have some very real issues with what I’m portraying.

Yeah that’s a fantastic look for the hobby. But we must persevere because heaven forbid we show the slightest empathy. We must teach people to be strong in their silence because it’s not for us to show any sympathy whatsoever.

Yeah. No thanks.

Again, you're conflating two very different things. It is not an absence of empathy for a product in the world to exist, without malice, and for that product to make reference to a subject that someone might find offensive. I understand that I am not going to convince you of that, but yet, there it is.

If you have an issue with the product, don't buy it. If you do buy it and bring it to a table, and someone tells you that you that they have a problem with it, then don't play it. Or edit it so everyone is comfortable. It's also okay to tell them that the rest of the table wants to play the game the way it is and they are free to find another table that better suits their needs.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

And calling this coddling is the opposite of those other two things. It's the ultimate in entitlement technology to hurl these kinds of insults at people just because one wants a mainstream release prominently featuring slavery.

You seem to have two types of posts on these boards: one is genuinely hilarious one liners, the other is this. Bizarre, angry, aggressive, dismissive posts. No interest in pursuing a debate, only interested in being insulting. Find a third way, and we can talk.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Not really on topic but Grave of the Fireflies has got to be one of the saddest and most moving animes I have seen. Been many years since I last saw it though

Hm. Only available on Apple TV in Canada. The write up looks interesting. I'll find a way to get a look at this.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You seem to have two types of posts on these boards: one is genuinely hilarious one liners, the other is this. Bizarre, angry, aggressive, dismissive posts. No interest in pursuing a debate, only interested in being insulting. Find a third way, and we can talk.

I'm not the one accursing people of coddling for not wanting slavery pushed in a mainstream release of the game.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I'm not the one accursing people of coddling for not wanting slavery pushed in a mainstream release of the game.

Again, find a third way.

 

[MGibster]

?

There was guy named Jack Chick who published a series of religious pamphlets in comic book form starting in the 1960s that eventually became known as Chick Tracts (Wiki Link). Many of these tracts expressed bigoted ideas including anti-Catholic sentiment, homophobia, anti-Muslim, and one about rock music, even Christian rock, is the devil's work. One infamous tract amonst gamers was one called "Dark Dungeons" all about the dangers of D&D with Marcie and Debbie. When Marcie's character Black Leaf dies, she's expelled from the game. Debbie's character survives, and it's at this point the DM offers to teach her "real" spells.

While Debbie's having a good time, Marcie is so distraught over the death of Black Leaf that she ends up committing suicide. But the story ends on a happy note because this prompts Debbie to abandon D&D and get saved. Okay, it's not so happy for Marcie or Black Leaf I guess.

The idea that RPGs are going to invoke such intense emotions as to be harmful is rather ludicrous. It was a ludicrous idea when Pat Pulling and Jack Chick argued that point and it's no less ludicrous when others argue it for different reasons.