D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Yaarel]

I think it just goes round and round like when people make the LotR Gandalf argument… “how do we know Gandalf is powerful, because he beat the belrog .” “How do we know the belrog is powerful it took Gandalf to beat him”

Hmmm.

If only Gandalf could beat the Belrog, that implies he is more powerful any of the others.

 

[Emberashh]

my BROTHER in CHRIST, this is HEAVY CROSSBOW DRAW WEIGHT.

ok but seriously your game sounds cool as hell and i want to play it.

Right lol. The Arquera can literally sink ships.

For funsies, this is the entire subclass, and remember, this doesn't even account for the 24 other abilities the Arquera shares with all Warriors, nor any of the armors, weapons, and enchantments that will be available too:

Arquera

With a keen eye and a strong arm, an archer is an invaluable asset in battle, covering their allies with devastating precision and a versatile and highly mobile skillset.

Fletcher (Level 4): Of all the skills of an archer, perhaps the most undervalued is the practice of fletching, the crafting of various arrows. As a Arquera, you are particularly skilled with this, and when engaging in Fletching, the amount of arrows you create are doubled, and they are automatically improved by one level of Quality at no additional cost to your Crafting budget and no need to have the corresponding materials. If you are creating Arrows that are already at the maximum Quality possible, then you gain +1 additional Damage die, and your Critical Hit range reduces by 1.

Quick-Draw (Level 9): Though you value your well practiced aim, often battle does not wait for you to be ready. If you roll at least a 10 on your React, you do not have to wait a turn or waste an attack on readying heavy bow weapons; you can immediately draw and fire, and this speedy draw applies to all of your attacks for the round. Additionally, when Reacting defensively with a Ranged weapon, you may double whatever movement you have available to you, and can freely convert this additional movement to a climbing speed without the requisite Athletics check, allowing you greater mobility to maintain the best vantage points in battle. However, if you wish to try for a free climb, you may attempt a DC20 Athletics check as a Skill Action.

Far Sighted (Level 14): You don't quite know which came first, your skill with a bow or a sharpened vision, but you enjoy the benefits nonetheless. Your range with Bow weapons is doubled, and out of combat you are able to see clearly at distances as far as your bow can shoot, as long as you are not affected by darkness, fog, solid matter, or other obscuring effects. This heightened vision aids you in exploration, allowing you to spot and identify distant objects, potential threats, or points of interest.

Skirmisher (Level 19): A great archer is nothing without their side arm; even the fastest draw is still slower than the pull of a dagger, and in close quarters the quick draw of a blade allows you to strike hard and fast without delay. You gain the ability to freely switch between melee and ranged Techniques, so long as you have a weapon you can easily draw with your free hand, and such melee attacks will deal an additional damage die.

Practiced Accuracy (Level 24): Long adventures and hours practicing have honed your accuracy to its peak. When you are attempting to make Ranged attacks against your enemies, if your Attack Rating is insufficient to hit them, you may roll 1d6 to attempt to make up the difference, and can do this once for every attack you have available to you. Outside of combat, this accuracy can also apply to shots you make with utility arrows, such as grappling arrows or illuminating flares, to ensure they hit their mark.

Sinking of the Aman-Bad (Level 29): Of all the archers that have existed across the land, none can compare to that of the unknown archer who sunk the great warship of the East, the Aman-Bad, with but a single arrow, a feat few archers have ever approached; your skills mark you as such an archer. Your Practiced Accuracy die grows to 1d8, and if Practiced Accuracy corrects your shot, allowing for a hit, you inflict the maximum of your damage roll on your target. Against environmental objects, like the hull of a ship, you deal quadruple damage. If you destroy the object in this way and have damage left over, you can apply it to any single enemy that is immediately adjacent to the object you damaged.

 

[Emberashh]

Hmmm.

If only Gandalf could beat the Belrog, that implies he is more powerful any of the others.

In terms of the the greater mythology of LOTR, it took a group of Balrogs (ranging anywhere from an army to like, 7 of them. I prefer the 7 estimate) to just beat back Ungoliant, basically a primordial spider demon creature that rivals some of the greater divine entities in the canon.

So if it takes 7 or even more Balrogs to do that, it (and their general description) implies a great deal about what it takes to defeat one.

And in the scheme of things, Gandalf and the Balrog are literally the same type of being. Effective equals in at least baseline capability.

And it took Gandalf 3 days and two nights to finally smite the thing, travelling from the deepest depths of Moria to its highest peaks in the process.

Thats a lot. A lot a lot. And in the scheme of LOTR canon its basically a throwback to a more mythic age when such shenanigans were just Tuesday.

 

[HammerMan]

Thats a lot. A lot a lot. And in the scheme of LOTR canon its basically a throwback to a more mythic age when such shenanigans were just Tuesday.

I don’t think you get the joke reference I was making. It was an old comic strip. Maybe knights of dinner table or maybe dork tower I’m not even sure

 

[Minigiant]

I think D&D should bring back the multiple arrays. I would better explain that PCs are special.

For those who don't know, 3e had 3 arrays.

The Standard NPC array for most beings.
The nonelite NPC array for still normal beings who where good at some things and bad at others for NPCs with advancement into NPC/sidekick classes..
And the Elite Standard array for PCs and NPCs with normal classes.

This would emphasize that PCs are not normal. They are special from birth or training.

 

[Micah Sweet]

... huh?

So, sorry, let me get this straight. Wizards aren't magical. They can grab a book and learn to use magic, but that is because magic is in the setting, not in the wizard.

Fighter and humans aren't magical. But they can learn magic, because it is in the setting.

Fighters can't do what wizards do, because fighters aren't magical...

I'm getting 1+1 = water buffalo here, if neither of them are magical, and both of them can learn magic... then what is the difference that needs to be explicitly spelled out?

Does the fighter class have supernatural or magical abilities, outside of subclass?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think it just goes round and round like when people make the LotR Gandalf argument… “how do we know Gandalf is powerful, because he beat the belrog .” “How do we know the belrog is powerful it took Gandalf to beat him”

Who says that? I've never heard that particular piece of circular logic before.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In terms of the the greater mythology of LOTR, it took a group of Balrogs (ranging anywhere from an army to like, 7 of them. I prefer the 7 estimate) to just beat back Ungoliant, basically a primordial spider demon creature that rivals some of the greater divine entities in the canon.

So if it takes 7 or even more Balrogs to do that, it (and their general description) implies a great deal about what it takes to defeat one.

And in the scheme of things, Gandalf and the Balrog are literally the same type of being. Effective equals in at least baseline capability.

And it took Gandalf 3 days and two nights to finally smite the thing, travelling from the deepest depths of Moria to its highest peaks in the process.

Thats a lot. A lot a lot. And in the scheme of LOTR canon its basically a throwback to a more mythic age when such shenanigans were just Tuesday.

Actually Gandalf was in a lower power position than the balrog in a way, despite both being Maia, because the Istari were sent to Middle-Earth in incarnate, mortal bodies, albeit long-lived, and could die.

 

[Gammadoodler]

No one has said anything about "PC humans". That's the first time I've seen that phrase here. Humans in general are referred to, and that is a question of worldbuilding, not strictly character creation as you appear to be trying to characterize the discussion.

Near as I can tell the only humans we've been talking about specifically are those created using the rules for character creation included in the PHB. You know, the human fighters and wizards etc that have been relevant to.the conversation.

I don't think anyone other than you has been willing to assert how magical humans may or may not be in the setting generally.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think D&D should bring back the multiple arrays. I would better explain that PCs are special.

For those who don't know, 3e had 3 arrays.

The Standard NPC array for most beings.
The nonelite NPC array for still normal beings who where good at some things and bad at others for NPCs with advancement into NPC/sidekick classes..
And the Elite Standard array for PCs and NPCs with normal classes.

This would emphasize that PCs are not normal. They are special from birth or training.

If you're going to insist that PCs are special, then yes, I agree.