D&D (2024) D&D 5.11 - the time of big change is over

[Marandahir]

They dropped class groups? Ranger and Paladin cantrips? LOL, so many memos that I missed.

Ranger and Paladin cantrips are a Fighting Style in Tasha's Cauldron, which is SUPPOSED to be compatible with the 2024 rules, so it wasn't really necessary and this lets them play with the Weapon Mastery toys like Barbarians, Rogues, Fighters, and Monks.

Class Groups were a bit too much like the power source x class role chassis from 4e. It was preventing the classes from being what they wanted to be by saying only Warriors can do Weapon Mastery, so Paladins, Rangers, and Rogues, you're out of luck. Ironically, this new variation actually reinforces Weapon Mastery as reflective of a "Martial Power Source" as it's available to all classes that are at least as significantly Martially-focused as they are their other things they do. Best to consider it as equivalent of cantrips but for characters that aren't primarily casters.

 

[Micah Sweet]

To be perfectly honest? I think WotC is opting now to play it safer than they originally wanted to.

The D&D community has complained about several large bugbears in the 5e rules: short rest recharges being unreliable due DM fiat. Dual wielding costs a bonus action. Wild Shape being a shopping spree in the MM and any other book with monsters in it, Warlock magic being utterly incompatible with every other type of spellcasting in the game. Exhaustion being far too punishing. WotC put out a bunch of UAs that said, "we hear you" and then said "nevermind, we're keeping them as is, with MAYBE a few bits of errata". Even things that didn't score badly got tossed to the dumpster: unified subclass progression, prof bonus/day instead of SR or ability mod/day., epic boons at 20th level. The only major changes we're getting that literally weren't telegraphed in 2022 are weapon mastery and unified spell lists. Everything else is language clarification and adding/replacing class features.

WotC walked into the living room, decided that ugly half-wall between it and the kitchen needed to go, took all the furniture out of the room, and then, they just decided to paint the wall and put everything back. If they hadn't made a show about removing the half-wall in the first place, most people wouldn't have thought it was an option. Now I'm not overly mad: I like the changes they are making. But the fact they are backpedaling on so many design ideas at this point in design doesn't tell me this was based on player feedback as much as a desire to make sure this new PHB doesn't split the fanbase.

Anyway: this should be the death knell that this is anything resembling 5.5 or 6e: This is Tasha's 2.0.

Agreed, this is solid evidence that maintaining their profit margin is far more important than making any rules changes they think would make the game better.

Backwards compatibility is maintained, at the cost of reducing the value of the actual product (as the changes expected are reduced), which may mean a reduction in units sold. Perhaps the new VTT and the heavy encouragement to use DDB will make up for it. We'll just have to see.

 

[Vael]

This was always going to be a difficult needle to thread: fix and iterate on stuff that needed improvement, but not makes such major changes that the 2014 and 2024 versions were incompatible, and do it in a manner that scored well in surveys.

Also ... I'm not exactly missing class groups. I liked them in 4e, when it accurately described your combat role, but these aren't the Defenders, Strikers, Leaders and Controllers of 5e ... and when looking at the list of popular classes to add to DnD, some find the class groups a poor fit.

 

[Marandahir]

Paladins are a poor fit for Priests, even if that's definitely part of their identity. Bards and Rangers are definitely Experts, but Bards are also full casters, and Rangers are also half-casters and warriors… and restricting Rogues from the Warrior category meant they didn't get to play with the Weapon Mastery toys (nor would Paladins and Rangers, nor would those two get to take additional Fighting Styles because only Warriors got access to Fighting Style feats beyond when a class feature granted it). It just was very square peg round hole to try to lean on the nostalgia of 2e Class Groups.

It wasn't a bad idea for when throwing spaghetti and meat balls at the wall, but now that we're getting closer to His Noodley Appendage, it's time to be more grounded with what we offer to the FSM.

 

[Yaarel]

Ranger and Paladin cantrips are a Fighting Style in Tasha's Cauldron, which is SUPPOSED to be compatible with the 2024 rules, so it wasn't really necessary and this lets them play with the Weapon Mastery toys like Barbarians, Rogues, Fighters, and Monks.

Class Groups were a bit too much like the power source x class role chassis from 4e. It was preventing the classes from being what they wanted to be by saying only Warriors can do Weapon Mastery, so Paladins, Rangers, and Rogues, you're out of luck. Ironically, this new variation actually reinforces Weapon Mastery as reflective of a "Martial Power Source" as it's available to all classes that are at least as significantly Martially-focused as they are their other things they do. Best to consider it as equivalent of cantrips but for characters that aren't primarily casters.

I do like Paladins with cantrips tho. And Fighters (!) too, to foreshadow Eldritch Knight. Hopefully, a Gish Fighting Style with cantrip and perhaps even Mage Armor makes it into both classes in the 2024 Players Handbook.

 

[HammerMan]

Anyway: this should be the death knell that this is anything resembling 5.5 or 6e: This is Tasha's 2.0.

I agree if we see this style of update it is little more then errata plus Tasha

 

[mamba]

Buy what they are doing now us what they said they would the entire tine...? From the start Crawford said that most of what they put out early in was probsvly not going to make it, bit they couldn't know what would stick until they threw it against the wall.

maybe, I just wished that more stuck, and that they threw the stuff that didn’t stick the first time against the wall a second time, harder (ie with adjustments), before giving up on it - or for them to not lacklusterly toss it towards the direction of a wall the first time but actually give it some effort

A better design metaphore is that tjis playtest process is like a "getting dressed for Prom" montage, with the initial options being outlandish and ridiculous before settling on a final set of clothes to impress.

before settling on the used clothes of your older sibling you mean

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I agree if we see this style of update it is little more then errata plus Tasha

I agree.

I really wish the rest of the world would enjoy the change of shared subclass level progression, to open the design space for species/organizational-based subclasses that any class could take. The design opportunities in that space are bountiful.

But despite that preference, I have come to the conclusion that I will not be angry about sticking to the current paradigm of getting subclass at L3, but the higher levels otherwise don't change from 2014 progression. Especially if they make sure to fill in some gaps like they did wth the Rogue's Cunning Action being available for all rogues. That is pretty great stuff. It's about classes getting cool stuff at every level, and looking forward to advancement. Backwards compatibility is important, and it's not worth creating another rift if 30% of people are going to be upset about backwards compatibility.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I do like Paladins with cantrips tho. And Fighters (!) too, to foreshadow Eldritch Knight. Hopefully, a Gish Fighting Style with cantrip and perhaps even Mage Armor makes it into both classes in the 2024 Players Handbook.

Arcane trickster gets the whole arcane list now. Only two of the first three known spells have a school restrictions. So if a 3rd level Rogue-Arcane trickster can get Mage Armor, I expect the Eldritch Knight to be the same.

 

[Parmandur]

maybe, I just wished that more stuck, and that they threw the stuff that didn’t stick the first time against the wall a second time, harder (ie with adjustments), before giving up on it - or for them to not lacklusterly toss it towards the direction of a wall the first time but actually give it some effort

Well, thing is, this is how they've run Unearthed Arcana for a decade now, and it has worked very well to keep the game on an even keel.