D&D (2024) The new warlock (Packet 7)

Also, let's be clear. It's not just the damage that makes Spirit Shroud better. Hex is stuck on one target until it dies and costs a Bonus Action to reapply to a new target. Spirit Shroud just works on every melee attack, with no target limits or action costs. The means no problem if you have to swap targets, no cap if you're cleaving through multiple minions in one turn, and no opportunity cost if you have another use for Bonus Actions like Chain Pact or a magic item.

This imbalance was hidden by Blade Pact being pretty weak and needing to be propped up by super strong supplements like Spirit Shroud and Hexblade. Now that Blade Pact is being brought up to a reasonable state, combining it with those old assists results in an overpowered state. That's why new editions usually wipe the slate clean of old material. You can't fix anything if you have to allow for all the old patch jobs sticking around.
You know what would have allowed pact of the blade and allowed spirit shroud as is? Half-caster spellcasting on the warlock. And since we're ready to abandon backwards compatibility apparently, let's shunt pact magic like the garbage it is and build a good warlock who operates like a real arcane gish/paladin class.
 

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Off the cuff compromise:

Invocation: Eldritch Eyes of the Runekeeper
Prereq: Pact of the Tome
Provided you have them as rituals in your Tome, you can cast Detect Magic and Comprehend Languages as an action, ignoring any component requirements. You can cast each of these spells a number of times a day equal to your PB using this invocation; these uses recharge at the end of a Long Rest.
Dang it, I forgot to comment on these missing invocations! I was actually going to suggest keeping Eldritch Sight as is and then combining Comp Language and Beast Speech into a single invocation. I like your compromise, as well, but I'd suggest getting rid of the tracking, and just let them work at will, given the prereq of Pact of the Tome.
 

You know what would have allowed pact of the blade and allowed spirit shroud as is? Half-caster spellcasting on the warlock. And since we're ready to abandon backwards compatibility apparently, let's shunt pact magic like the garbage it is and build a good warlock who operates like a real arcane gish/paladin class.
No. Let the Warlock be cool. You can play some other class if you hate pact magic so much.
 

No. Let the Warlock be cool. You can play some other class if you hate pact magic so much.
If by "cool" you mean broken. Pact Magic is broken. Blade Pact is Broken. The only thing I guess I can say is that they fixed Hexadin by giving the warlock Eldritch Smite and three-attacks per round, negating the need to even multiclass. And Sorclocks only need one level to get EB + AB now. So, progress?
 

If by "cool" you mean broken.
No, I mean cool.
Pact Magic is broken.
Lol, what happened to “warlocks don’t get enough spells cause no one wants to let me take short rests”? Now it’s broken? This would be an easier complaint to take seriously if it wasn’t exactly the opposite of the complaints we were hearing right up until Treantmonk said the new Warlock was OP 🙄
Blade Pact is Broken.
I disagree, but at least there’s an argument to be made here. And if enough folks playtesting it do agree, then it will be nerfed, which would be acceptable. Just leave Pact Magic alone.
The only thing I guess I can say is that they fixed Hexadin by giving the warlock Eldritch Smite and three-attacks per round, negating the need to even multiclass.
I mean, yeah. Isn’t not needing to multiclass the goal?
And Sorclocks only need one level to get EB + AB now. So, progress?
EP should definitely be tied to Warlock level rather than character level. That has nothing to do with Pact Magic.
 

Lol, what happened to “warlocks don’t get enough spells cause no one wants to let me take short rests”? Now it’s broken? This would be an easier complaint to take seriously if it wasn’t exactly the opposite of the complaints we were hearing right up until Treantmonk said the new Warlock was OP
Broken doesn't always mean OP. Broken means "doesn't work like it's expected to." On a single class warlock, pact magic has too few spell slots to actually be a reliable caster. When mixed with a real melee class or a real caster, it provides unintended synergies while remaining competent in the mixed classes abilities.
I disagree, but at least there’s an argument to be made here. And if enough folks playtesting it do agree, then it will be nerfed, which would be acceptable. Just leave Pact Magic alone.
Paladins and Rangers both have less attacks that a bladelock and aren't capable of 9th level magic. Something has to give.
I mean, yeah. Isn’t not needing to multiclass the goal?
They basically took one of the most powerful multiclass combo and eliminated the opportunity cost of having to alternate between two classes. You get all the best parts of both classes with no hit to your Pact Magic/MA progression or Feats/ASIs.
EP should definitely be tied to Warlock level rather than character level. That has nothing to do with Pact Magic.
Didn't say it did. But WotC has again dialed back yet another important balance fix because the community whined.
 

Broken doesn't always mean OP. Broken means "doesn't work like it's expected to." On a single class warlock, pact magic has too few spell slots to actually be a reliable caster.
It’s plenty reliable whenever I play them, so seems like user error to me.
When mixed with a real melee class or a real caster, it provides unintended synergies while remaining competent in the mixed classes abilities.
Really just one real problem multiclass, that being the Sorcerer. And that’s fixed easily enough by not allowing Pact Magic slots to be expended to gain Sorcery Points.
Paladins and Rangers both have less attacks that a bladelock and aren't capable of 9th level magic. Something has to give.
🤷‍♀️ again, if enough people find this to be too powerful in playtesting, it should be changed. That’s fine, changing it wouldn’t badly harm the class’s gameplay feel like getting rid of Pact Magic would,
They basically took one of the most powerful multiclass combo and eliminated the opportunity cost of having to alternate between two classes. You get all the best parts of both classes with no hit to your Pact Magic/MA progression or Feats/ASIs.
You get fewer spell slots to fuel your smites with, and you miss the other benefits of the Paladin class, like Lay on Hands, Channel Divinity, heavy armor proficiency, other Paladin spells, etc. Paladin/Warlock will still be a solid option, just as it was following Tasha’s. But, yeah, Eldritch Smite Bladelocks will be a powerful option without multiclassing as well. Looks like all-upside to me.
Didn't say it did. But WotC has again dialed back yet another important balance fix because the community whined.
Perhaps because the community didn’t find it to be in need of fixing.
 

Really just one real problem multiclass, that being the Sorcerer. And that’s fixed easily enough by not allowing Pact Magic slots to be expended to gain Sorcery Points.
And yet it hasn't been fixed... :cautious:
You get fewer spell slots to fuel your smites with, and you miss the other benefits of the Paladin class,
But you just said...
It’s plenty reliable whenever I play them, so seems like user error to me.
So you can't say warlocks have plenty of spells but they also have less spells. They have two spells per rest and if you're not actually spellcasting, you get two smite/crits per rest, plus Cunning if you need it. And they get 5th level slots to burn FAR sooner than a paladin will.

Of course its all upside. Its TOO MUCH upside.
Perhaps because the community didn’t find it to be in need of fixing.
Because MOAR POWAR IS KEWL!!!!1!
 

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