D&D 5E The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)

They literally want to play Aragorn. Y'know, the Ranger. Who was a non-magic wilderness explorer.

Aragorn can read peoples minds (detect thoughts) use what would be the equivalent of the Command spell, strike fear in his enemies by looking at them, has an Iron Will (which the 1E spell is probably based on), extended his lifetime through magic, could bring people back from the brink of death (revifify), uses healing magic, tries unsuccessfully to use scrying magic at Amon Hen and summons undead.

This is all in middle earth which is a low magic setting.

Aragorn was the inspiration for the original Gygax Ranger and that is probably why that class in 1E got both Druid and Magic-user spells.

Maybe if you are talking about the movie Aragorn you may have a point, just like the DNDHAT movie Bard is non-magic, but Aragorn "as written" by Tolkien is not non-magical.

Why should the fighty druid or the wilder rogue get wizard things?

I identify them more with Ranger. Roge can get them through a subclass though.

I mean the trend is for every attempt to fix the ranger somehow make them worse. Why break an almost 25 year streak?

I love the current Ranger. Not perfect, but petty darn good.
 
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I don't see that in any of the tables I play, or in any of the streaming videos I posted earlier.

I do see PCs minimized, but that does not track with a specific class and some of those in the videos getting a smaller share of play are full casters.
Sounds like gentleman's agreement.

50% of the PHB are full casters. Smaller share of casters for TV is a gentleman's agreement.
 

I was wondering how you would turn all of this around. First, I'm talking modules, not the main game since the main game doesn't report stats.
You had brought up Solasta.

I just started a fresh main campaign and have been manually tracking encounters a bit. I made a Paladin, Cleric, Druid, Wizard. Paladin is dex based but also has a high STR for heavy armor if desired.

Starting the game the Paladin had good weapons. The casters tended to rely on cantrips the first few combats till they found some shortswords, shortbows and light crossbows. Now it's more a mix. They've primarily casted damage spells, barring the druid who doesn't really have any yet. Damage Spells and Smites have been as needed. Paladin would have smited a bit more but missed the key attacks for them. The characters have been level 2 the whole time.

See Spoiler for Encounters

So far for a level 2 party a dex paladin, battle cleric, land druid and court mage wizard - the Paladin, Cleric and Wizard are neck and neck for damage.

At the end of the day -
Paladin - 92 Damage
Cleric - 93 Damage
Druid - 59 Damage
Wizard - 92 Damage

At end of day-
the Cleric had 1 spell slot left, wizard none and Paladin 2. Druid only used 1 but limited offensive ones for now.

I've listed the encounters followed by rest info and any significant offensive abilities used in the encounter

Random: 3 bandits, 1 highwayman - long rest after due to travel, paladin got clutch OA and smite on it
Surprise vs Goblins: 3 skirmishers, 3 goblins - before encounter wizard cast mage armor
Surprise vs Goblins: 3 skirmishers, 2 goblins - short rest after for paladin 6/20 hp, battle cleric used channel divinity for +1d6 damage
Surprise vs 6 Brimstone Vipers - Magic missile used
Single Sorak Skirmisher - short rest after for cleric 6/17, no resources used
Surprise vs 2 sorak sabatuer, 2 sorak warrior, 1 sorak skirmisher - long rest after, 2x MM, 2x Guiding Bolt, 1x +1d6 battle cleric ability, 1x Entangle

Notes:
Stealth provided alot of advantage, which helped the clerics guiding bolts the most.
Not having good weapons significantly lowered caster damage in the first few combats.
None of my hits have been crits.
 

You had brought up Solasta.

I just started a fresh main campaign and have been manually tracking encounters a bit. I made a Paladin, Cleric, Druid, Wizard. Paladin is dex based but also has a high STR for heavy armor if desired.

Starting the game the Paladin had good weapons. The casters tended to rely on cantrips the first few combats till they found some shortswords, shortbows and light crossbows. Now it's more a mix. They've primarily casted damage spells, barring the druid who doesn't really have any yet. Damage Spells and Smites have been as needed. Paladin would have smited a bit more but missed the key attacks for them. The characters have been level 2 the whole time.

See Spoiler for Encounters

So far for a level 2 party a dex paladin, battle cleric, land druid and court mage wizard - the Paladin, Cleric and Wizard are neck and neck for damage.

At the end of the day -
Paladin - 92 Damage
Cleric - 93 Damage
Druid - 59 Damage
Wizard - 92 Damage

At end of day-
the Cleric had 1 spell slot left, wizard none and Paladin 2. Druid only used 1 but limited offensive ones for now.

I've listed the encounters followed by rest info and any significant offensive abilities used in the encounter

Random: 3 bandits, 1 highwayman - long rest after due to travel, paladin got clutch OA and smite on it
Surprise vs Goblins: 3 skirmishers, 3 goblins - before encounter wizard cast mage armor
Surprise vs Goblins: 3 skirmishers, 2 goblins - short rest after for paladin 6/20 hp, battle cleric used channel divinity for +1d6 damage
Surprise vs 6 Brimstone Vipers - Magic missile used
Single Sorak Skirmisher - short rest after for cleric 6/17, no resources used
Surprise vs 2 sorak sabatuer, 2 sorak warrior, 1 sorak skirmisher - long rest after, 2x MM, 2x Guiding Bolt, 1x +1d6 battle cleric ability, 1x Entangle

Notes:
Stealth provided alot of advantage, which helped the clerics guiding bolts the most.
Not having good weapons significantly lowered caster damage in the first few combats.
None of my hits have been crits.
If you do a player created module you don't have to track anything. The game tracks everything. I would also note that I was talking fighters, not paladins. In my experience 2 weapon fighter did the most damage.
 

If you do a player created module you don't have to track anything.
Never done any modules and using one wasn't immediately apparent. Besides, I think seeing numbers for the main campaign content is more interesting even if a little more work.
I would also note that I was talking fighters, not paladins. In my experience 2 weapon fighter did the most damage.
I'm absolutely flabberagasted that you dismiss my report just because it didn't precisely match whatever you did in your playthrough.
 

Sounds like gentleman's agreement.

50% of the PHB are full casters. Smaller share of casters for TV is a gentleman's agreement.
The streaming videos I posted were not all made for TV but they did all have fighters (I tried to check this before I posted them), and I believe they all had full casters as well.

At least one of them had 3 full casters (Sorc, Warlock and Druid) and 2 fighters in the 5-person high-level party. Not sure about the other videos, but that one at least has a larger share than 50% full casters and in that particular video the fighters contributed more than the casters.
 
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Never done any modules and using one wasn't immediately apparent. Besides, I think seeing numbers for the main campaign content is more interesting even if a little more work.

I'm absolutely flabberagasted that you dismiss my report just because it didn't precisely match whatever you did in your playthrough.

I was trying to be helpful and clarifying what I saw. I was also mentioning what I ran because in my playthroughs paladins did not do as much damage as fighters.
 


The streaming videos I posted were not all made for TV but they did all have fighters (I tried to check this before I posted them), and I believe they all had full casters as well.

At least one of them had 3 full casters (Sorc, Warlock and Druid) and 2 fighters in the 5-person high-level party. Not sure about the other videos, but that one at least has a larger share than 50% full casters and in that particular video the fighters contributed more than the casters.

Almost as if some big youtuber was listening to us.
 


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