WotC Third party, DNDBeyond and potential bad side effects.

[mamba]

What publishers for DnD are not using the ogl? Well prior to this year obviously.

they were using it, but not licensing their published material under it, unlike eg KP

 

[Morrus]

It's not on WOTC to ensure that 3PPs are successful.

This keeps getting repeated in this thread, but it's a straw man. Nobody is saying that WotC is obligated to ensure 3PPs are successful.

But even companies like Apple are being forced via legislation to allow sideloading in the EU. It's not a new concept, and it is rooted very firmly in an ongoing and long lasting history of legislation and practices regarding market control and dominance, and the responsibilities that some along with that whether or not you want them, or we want them to want them. It's not as simple or black and white as folks are trying to portray it here, and "it's not on WOTC to ensure that 3PPs are successful" is a simplistic reduction of the conversation.

 

[mamba]

It's new technology, a new business practice. There may also be technical issues we don't know about. It's easy to say "Just add a button to import" or "Just add an API". Either one of those require significant investment and ongoing support costs.

I am aware

Would what you want be profitable for them?

is releasing the CC SRD in five languages a profitable venture in and of itself? And yes, I believe the API would be profitable, as I said

They might even need one to integrate with their 3D VTT anyway, the difference is publishing it, so others can use it too

Yet suddenly we’re seeing the idea put out that WotC should? How much money has WotC invested into DnD beyond and the vtt? Hundreds of millions of dollars. And they are just supposed to let everyone else piggyback on that for free?

nothing is for free there, except for the part any other VTT can get from the SRD already

If you want to get something from e.g. Fizbans, you need to own Fizbans on DDB, having an API does not change that

Why? Why would they even consider that? On what planet would anyone expect them to invest hundreds of millions of dollars- and that is what they’ve invested not even counting the millions invested in the 2024 rerelease - and then just give it away?

they are not giving anything away for free, if anything it makes owning the material on DDB more valuable than owning it in eg Roll20, because the former lets you use it in any VTT of your choice (provided it supports that API), while the latter does not, so it would benefit DDB sales

 

[mamba]

I would point out though that all those platforms for vtts are exclusive to each other though. If I buy Pathfinder for Fantasy Grounds, none of that can be used anywhere else. No one else even whispered the idea that other vtts should be cross platform compatible

having an open format would do just that… being the leader in a field also means you can initiate changes others cannot, which is why it is being brought up with WotC

Why? Why would they even consider that?

because they benefit from it, if their VTT is the best and users can freely move between them instead of being locked into one from past purchases

 

[SlyFlourish]

I am aware


is releasing the CC SRD in five languages a profitable venture in and of itself? And yes, I believe the API would be profitable, as I said

They might even need one to integrate with their 3D VTT anyway, the difference is publishing it, so others can use it too


nothing is for free there, except for the part any other VTT can get from the SRD already

If you want to get something from e.g. Fizbans, you need to own Fizbans on DDB, having an API does not change that


they are not giving anything away for free, if anything it makes owning the material on DDB more valuable than owning it in eg Roll20, because the former lets you use it in any VTT of your choice (provided it supports that API), while the latter does not, so it would benefit DDB sales

This is a great take.

It's also worth noting that the Chrome plugin Beyond20 does this right now. It lets you use your D&D Beyond character in Roll 20. It probably drives Roll20 bananas but I bet WOTC doesn't care. It's a benefit to them.

 

[nevin]

Yes. But also my big issue with Amazon is their employment policies. But I also know that grinder is what fuels thier efficiency.

nope. They aren't that efficient. They make a few pennies on the dollar if you look at thier financials. Amazon is just Freaking Big thier profit is because they are so big. They love to sell that story about how efficient they are but everything they've done to get to profitablitly, (which has only been the last 3 to 5 years, has been at the expense of getting the product to the customer quickly. Slower deliveries, more money for prime accounts etc. They are very good at messaging though. don't follow any companies messaging. Always follow the money, it never lies.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Folks I think people are thinking about this API business wrong. If WoTC released a web service and documentation to allow a third party to authenticate and account and sub tier on D&DBeyond and then pull character data and other data into some format (say xml) that could be easily imported into third party VTT it is not WoTC that suffers it is Roll20 and FantasyGrounds that are selling this service.
The anti competitive element would be in WoTC doing this thing.
Beyond20 does not hurt D&DBeyond sales it hurts Roll20's sales.

 

[darjr]

nope. They aren't that efficient. They make a few pennies on the dollar if you look at thier financials. Amazon is just Freaking Big thier profit is because they are so big. They love to sell that story about how efficient they are but everything they've done to get to profitablitly, (which has only been the last 3 to 5 years, has been at the expense of getting the product to the customer quickly. Slower deliveries, more money for prime accounts etc. They are very good at messaging though. don't follow any companies messaging. Always follow the money, it never lies.

I was tempted to put “efficiency” in scare quotes.

 

[Oofta]

I am aware


is releasing the CC SRD in five languages a profitable venture in and of itself? And yes, I believe the API would be profitable, as I said

They might even need one to integrate with their 3D VTT anyway, the difference is publishing it, so others can use it too


nothing is for free there, except for the part any other VTT can get from the SRD already

If you want to get something from e.g. Fizbans, you need to own Fizbans on DDB, having an API does not change that


they are not giving anything away for free, if anything it makes owning the material on DDB more valuable than owning it in eg Roll20, because the former lets you use it in any VTT of your choice (provided it supports that API), while the latter does not, so it would benefit DDB sales

Building, maintaining and securing an API can be expensive. It is not a simple task and their tech department may simply be too busy making changes for the 2024 edition to deal with it.

I don't know what they're thinking or planning. But there is no reason to believe an API would be profitable. There's also no reason to believe there is any business case for them to do it. They don't need to do it just because it would be useful for other companies.

 

[Oofta]

This keeps getting repeated in this thread, but it's a straw man. Nobody is saying that WotC is obligated to ensure 3PPs are successful.

But even companies like Apple are being forced via legislation to allow sideloading in the EU. It's not a new concept, and it is rooted very firmly in an ongoing and long lasting history of legislation and practices regarding market control and dominance, and the responsibilities that some along with that whether or not you want them, or we want them to want them. It's not as simple or black and white as folks are trying to portray it here, and "it's not on WOTC to ensure that 3PPs are successful" is a simplistic reduction of the conversation.

But people certainly seem to be saying that DDB should support any and every 3PP that wants their product on DDB. People sound like they are saying WOTC is responsible for supporting 3PP, even if that is not their intent. For example people are pushing for an API. They have no reason to do that unless it serves their long term goals.

My main point is that WOTC is not creating a walled garden; they are not restricting or making it more difficult for people to get someone else's product. They are making it easier to access some 3PP, that's not the same. It's like when Netflix and then other companies jumped into streaming. I no longer subscribe to a cable package which hurts the cable companies, but Netflix did not establish a walled garden. I just prefer to get my entertainment from streaming. Nothing is stopping or restricting me from buying another MM from Kobold Press, it's just easier for me to use the monsters I have in DDB.

I get that it sucks for Kobold Press (or Matt Collville or any of the other 3PP I've purchased over the years) if I never spend money on their products ever again because they aren't in DDB. I just don't blame WOTC for not opening the floodgates, I accept that technology changes. Sometimes that means winners and losers, sometimes it means a consolidation of and industry in ways I don't care for.