D&D (2024) 2024 needs to end 2014's passive aggressive efforts to remove magic items & other elements from d&d

[tetrasodium]

you can always find items that are useless to you, or just not very useful.

Funny story from one campaign,
DM made 4 custom magic items for our party of 4, from a big boss fight and a treasure hoard.

we identify those items, and going straight to Waterdeep, we decided to sell them all.

I saw guys will for d&d drain from him in real time as we sold custom made items that he spent time designing them for bunch of +1 stock weapons and armors and some cheap uncommon/common items. It was sad and hilarious at the same time.

That last bit is totally the fault of 5e in many cases no matter how hard the GM tries to cater it to their players

Sounds like he didn't design them with the players in mind. It's a hard lesson to learn.

No it's often the fault of 5e. By not designing monsters so the PCs need magic items the GM is left with one option, "give players broken and op or forgettable stuff"with nothing between those three. In the past there were lots of ways that the gm could use deeper nuance to give magic items that helped a PC meet prerequisites for mutually desirable build choices utility or more options.

None of those are needed in 5e unless the gm fires the catch 22 at themselves to force it so those kinds of items are required while hoping that their players climb onboard rather than taking the campaign hostage by daring the GM to Keep making it required in the face of that stonewalling

 

[Horwath]

Wand of the Warmage +1 only applies to "spell attacks", not normal spell DCs.

There needs to be wands and other focuses that boost normal spellcasting potency, namely the DC.

4e had this for every spellcasting.

5e can too.


Like any +bonus magic item, it also needs to do flavorful interesting things too.

Tasha's

 

[Yaarel]

Tasha's

Something like that, an interesting focus +1+ for the spellcaster DCs.

Still, I didnt see any interesting wands +1+, or so on.

The focuses +1+ need to be as ubiquitous and routine as swords +1+. But both focuses and weapons need to be flavorful with distinctive benefits besides the +.

 

[SteveC]

I don't really want to get involved in the specifics of this thread, but I will absolutely say that trying to make magic items much less prominent in 5E is something I really haven't liked. Magic items are one of the core pillars of character development and taking it away makes the game much less interesting to me. Now I've also read people in this thread with the exact opposite preferences, so I think there's considerable disagreement with my position.

 

[Yaarel]

When a magic item becomes available in an adventure, the DM can make sure the hostiles are already using this item against the player characters.

This habit of arming the hostiles with magic items, likewise helps the math when the player characters also tend to have magic item.

Also, there is a sense that the player characters "earned" the magic item by facing it head on, rather than picking it up from a random pile.

Finally, because the hostiles attune the magic item, the DM has a pretext to make a worrisome magic item non-attunable − because the item was somehow created with an intention that only applies to those hostiles.

When a character attempts to attune a magic item during a short rest, it is ok for DM to say, "You have a feeling that you can use this item, but your arent powerful enough yet."

 

[MichaelSomething]

If WOTC really wanted to make magic items an unneeded module, they should have never included them in the three main books.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Also, there is a sense that the player characters "earned" the magic item by facing it head on, rather than picking it up from a random pile.

Finally, because the hostiles attune the magic item, the DM has a pretext to make a worrisome magic item non-attunable − because the item was somehow created with an intention that only applies to those hostiles.

These two together are why I dislike this.

You earn an item, but then can't use it because you don't have Meta-God's permission.

Don't put a burger on my plate, then slap my hands when I go to eat it.

 

[CapnZapp]

Problem is that magic items are part of the character as much as they are the setting.

It's like how they made feats optional. It's putting other people's options in the hands of the one guy who gets to decide what all their friends get to do. It's the Alpha Friend problem of old school DM/Player dynamics.

This argument doesn't do what you think it does.

It suggests you have a naughty word DM. The solution isn't to force all groups use feats, but for you to find a nicer DM. Alternatively you simply need to accept that there's no game without the DM. It's perfectly reasonable to defer to the DM's wishes more than your wishes. Maybe take your turn as DM next time, mh?

Never is it a sustainable solution to hope the textbook will force DMs into doing things against their will.

Cheers

 

[CapnZapp]

If WOTC really wanted to make magic items an unneeded module, they should have never included them in the three main books.

They never wanted that. They just wanted the best of both worlds. They want to satisfy people loving loot but without having actually to back that up with sensible mechanics.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think that's a bit snarky. when you play in a high level game with teleporting/shapeshifting/hold person wizards, it can be very hard to have fun as a martial when you don't have any tools in your toolbox to keep up. the game was built with the idea that magical items are out there for utility, power, wishes etc. Being snarky because people want that is a bit over the top.

But I have no problem with them wanting that. We were discussing whether the game requires magic items.

One clear example is +1 swords. No, you don't have to hand these out to your martial characters. Not if you have a spellcaster capable of casting Magic Weapon, a spell I have never seen used... simply because I've never played in a truly magic poor campaign. But I know enough about the game to be able to say, with confidence, you can complete every official module even if you have zero magic items*. This separates 5E from the editions before it.

*) I'm sure there are some exceptions... but I would be very surprised if the scenario doesn't go to greath lengths to providing a special mcguffin that fixes the problem in those cases, as opposed to groups just concluding "my fighter can't do anything and defeat is inevitable".